CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > Community > Running a CrossFit Facility
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Running a CrossFit Facility Tips and guidance on how to open and operate a CrossFit gym.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-18-2009, 05:21 PM   #21
Skip Chase
Affiliate Skip Chase is offline
 
Skip Chase's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mount Vernon  WA
Posts: 1,324
Re: The Economics of Membership Pricing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
There are plenty of serious recreational athletes who are not elite, and who are not interested in putting in the work required to become elite. Rather, they are balancing their primary sport, their job, their personal life, and CrossFit. Given that there are only 24 hours in a day, something's got to give. Are you saying that you are unable/unwilling to help those people?



It's your affiliate. Run it however you like. But realize that successful, self-motivated adults aren't particularly interested in lectures about their work ethic. Especially from someone they've just met.

Katherine
I don't want this thread to become one that I wished I had never entered. I am sharing our experience in an effort to help. It's not 'our way or the highway'.

I've been coaching, teaching, training, motivating and encouraging people for over 30 years. MOST people did not see themselves as an athlete let alone being an elite athlete. Most athlete want to become elite. Some do, some don't. Most people in general, who are overweight/obese can't imagine being fit and healthy and certainly not if ever as an athlete. It is my responsibility to re-condition their behavior and teach them a new lifestyle. I must assume the position of authority (teacher, coach, sensei) and create the proper plan to give them the confidence they will achieve their goals in spite of their experiencing countless failures.

Our plan- It all starts with a minimum of 3x per week. That is my conclusion based on my life experiences and my knowledge of human psychology.

We started with that plan. No punch cards. No drop in fee (travelers only). The client becomes a committed client training at least 3x per week. Thus far, it's working, thank God, at 2 locations.

I, personally, have yet to meet the athlete who did not desire to improve. Since CrossFit, I've discovered there are many clients who, in the beginning, said, "I hate running. Please don't make me run!", are now they are competing in 5k's, triathlons and marathons. They had to LEARN how to change a weakness into a strength. Behavioral conditioning.

Lecture? I guess I will attribute that comment to 'internet translation'.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 08:45 PM   #22
Michael Manning
Affiliate Michael Manning is offline
 
Michael Manning's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Satellite Beach  FL
Posts: 221
Re: The Economics of Membership Pricing

OP, excellent analysis on the structure of affiliate membership options, will def. consider more. As to follow on discussion... "WTF?" But I must say... Way to keep on point Skip! The "how to run an Affiliate" argument from the "serious athlete" who already "knows everything" will and should fall on deaf ears. We train people who are LOOKING for a change and need help getting just that. The last person I would invite into our community/affiliate is the serious athlete who wants to tell us how they should be trained. Seriously, these view points are getting old. If you want to rent space and equipment and don't want coaching, there are much better ways to go about it. MOST affiliates, who have become successful, have adopted an approach of "this is how WE do it". Not everyone is our client. Nor would we want to train EVERYBODY. Our greatest success has come from the "now formerly" overweight Mom, the "never lifted weights before" guy, the "used to be an athlete" 30 something office guy, who's gained a few pounds. They tell us everyday "Thank You!", and, "I couldn't have done this without this place, you guys and this community". The point is, we provide a service, as an affiliate, that is either something you want or not. Wishing and complaining for something else is not useful. These types of comments by Katherine. Et. Al., highlighted by this one, "My concern is that I see some affiliate owners taking a "my way or the highway" attitude. You WILL do the group WOD. You WILL treat CrossFit as your primary activity. Etc. As a potential customer, that seriously rubs me the wrong way. It's my life and my training, and I'm willing to live with the consequences of my decisions, however misguided you may think those decisions are",... are illuminating and illustrate my point. Should we do things your way instead? You (pl) are NOT our client, you would not thrive here, nor would you find quarter with our "lesser" athletes who know no better than to follow our program. We advise our athletes to "leave their egos outside, show up consistently and do what we ask" If they do, they achieve the desired result. If they don't or won't, they take away from those that will and do. Our success depends on being able to differentiate between the two... Those that WILL and those that WON'T. Some won't... so be it...
__________________
www.harborcitycrossfit.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 10:48 PM   #23
Katherine Derbyshire
Member Katherine Derbyshire is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seattle  WA
Posts: 7,596
Re: The Economics of Membership Pricing

*shrug* Your affiliate, your rules. As I said, I've found an affiliate where I'm happy. And, strangely enough, I have no difficulty whatsoever "showing up consistently and doing what they ask." Starting from a position of mutual respect probably has something to do with that.

Katherine
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 07:15 AM   #24
Damien Del Russo
Member Damien Del Russo is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Greenbelt  MD
Posts: 56
Re: The Economics of Membership Pricing

One thing to consider is that using incentives to encourage your clients to show up - the first and most important step to changing their behavior - only helps you (as the affiliate owner/coach) achieve your goal.

It is easy to imagine that many clients may initially sign up for a 2 or 3 classes per week plan, and then move into an unlimited (e.g. ideal for training purposes) plan within a month or two. Using incentives via membership fee structure supports that goal.

Conversely, offering fee structures that effectively punish those that are unwilling to attend the ideal number of classes works against that goal.

CrossFit includes a lot of practices that work. The low cost and wide distribution of the CF Journal is a great example. Because the value is obviously worth more than $25/yr, there is a strong incentive (imperative?) to sign up and then read it. That activity supports and strengthens the CF community.

Use economic incentives to support and strengthen your affiliate and benefit your clients.

Enjoy,

Damien
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 08:56 AM   #25
Jonathon Shelton
Member Jonathon Shelton is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Waco  TX
Posts: 26
Re: The Economics of Membership Pricing

Here in Waco we have an Unlimited Package and a 2x/week package. Majority of our members come 4-5 days a week, and the 2x a week people usually come in on Saturdays for the Open Gym for a 3rd day. We make sure that everyone knows that CrossFit is a Sport at our gym. The more time spent doing CrossFit, or at least practicing the movements, the faster you will see results, and the more times your name will appear on the board. We also inform everyone that everyday they miss, they fall behind the people that were here. If they miss a heavy day of Front Squats, they understand that they have missed a crucial stepping stone to improving their cleans and thrusters. We have used this since day one, and this was when people were saying that they were not the competitive type. Now those same people are coming in to make up Heavy Days and missed workouts because that WhiteBoard is all they think about.

For the post about Trainers spending too much time with newbies: At this time, we are unable to offer different level classes due to space, so everyone is working out together. During the workout, we do have 2 scaled levels of the Rx'd workout for individual just starting, or for individuals who have problems with certain exercises. We also advise the new members to come in on Saturdays or during any open gym to practice what they suck at. It has worked for us so far.

For the Sport Athletes: What I basically tell them is that CrossFit will improve their performance during their sport. We have a couple of high school track athletes, and they are witnessing positive changes with their performance during meets and track practice. We do not tell them that CrossFit is the only thing they should do, because that is not the case. CrossFit specializes in not specializing. Every sport requires specialized training specifically for a certain sport.

Just my 2 cents.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 09:37 AM   #26
Cody Limbaugh
Affiliate Cody Limbaugh is offline
 
Cody Limbaugh's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Oswego  OR
Posts: 87
Re: The Economics of Membership Pricing

So when we first started offering classes in the transition from 1-on-1 we did a 2x/week and unlimited. Mathematically it is an incentive to get the unlimited package even if you can only make it in 3-4 times/week but emotionally I think it backfires sometimes. We had clients who were only coming in 2 times per week just so they could stay at the lower monthly investment.

This structure also presented one other problem for us in the beginning. A 2x/week program requires some sort of attendance tracking and enforcement. It almost 'feels' like you are telling your athlete to stay away- only come in 2/week...we want you here more but you need to pay for it!

We met our clients in the middle by reducing our unlimited package and eliminating the 2x/week. We did not lose a single client in this change and now people who said they only had time for 2 are coming in 4 times per week!

There is something to be said for having too many choices. When we first opened as a 1-on-1 studio we had session packages of: 4,8,12,16,24,36,48,96. We usually tried to narrow it down to two options based on their program. There were price incentives for each but when faced with a total investment price tag, most people will choose the lesser one.

We now offer 1-on-1 sessions in 12 or 24- $960 or $1,800.
Unlimited classes monthly: $199
Family add on: $99.

Mil/Fire/Police-10% off 1-on-1 or $169/mo.


New clients that have never CrossFitted before are required to take a Fundamentals one month course for $299 before entering in to the $199 class.

By the way, even at 1 time per week (4-5 per month) $199 is competitive with the Globo Gym small group personal training, at 2x/week $199 is a steal! Especially if you compare CF with the "Small Group PT" at your average gym...apples and oranges.

I think the tiered incentive pricing works in theory and on paper but people make more emotional decisions than logical ones and they will often sacrifice results for the easy way out, in this case the "cheapest" monthly rate that also requires less time commitment.
__________________
Cody Limbaugh- CrossFit eXcellence, Lake Oswego OR http://crossfitexcellence.com (w/f safe) 'Excellence is not perfectionism-nobody is perfect,but every one of us can strive to live a life of excellence.'-Mike Woods
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 10:42 AM   #27
Ned Ferguson
Member Ned Ferguson is offline
 
Ned Ferguson's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Knoxville  TN
Posts: 435
Re: The Economics of Membership Pricing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip Chase View Post
Our plan- It all starts with a minimum of 3x per week. That is my conclusion based on my life experiences and my knowledge of human psychology.
Did you mean to say "physiology" or really psychology? Just wondering. If you did mean psychology, could you elaborate?
__________________
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! God Bless America.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 11:16 AM   #28
Gabriel desGarennes
Member Gabriel desGarennes is offline
 
Gabriel desGarennes's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Issaquah  WA
Posts: 577
Re: The Economics of Membership Pricing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
My aikido dojo is Aikido Eastside, in Bellevue. My CrossFit gym is Local's Gym, in Lynnwood. I can emphatically recommend both.

(Yes, I know that CrossFit Bellevue is right next door to Aikido Eastside. But Local's is closer to me.)

Katherine
No worries, i just thought that was mighty coincidental that you do aikido AND crossfit, and i work next to an aikido studio. I'd love to meet you since i see you on the forums so much. Stop by sometime for a workout when you're next door. What times are you usually there?
__________________
M/25/195# Seattle, Wa
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 11:40 AM   #29
Katherine Derbyshire
Member Katherine Derbyshire is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seattle  WA
Posts: 7,596
Re: The Economics of Membership Pricing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel desGarennes View Post
No worries, i just thought that was mighty coincidental that you do aikido AND CrossFit, and i work next to an aikido studio. I'd love to meet you since i see you on the forums so much. Stop by sometime for a workout when you're next door. What times are you usually there?
I'm usually at the Monday (6-9P), Wednesday (6-9P), and Saturday (10:30A-1P, unless I'm teaching the early class at 9A) classes, barring seminars and life disruptions. Alas, by the time I get done either you guys are gone or I'm too wiped out to even consider CF. But saying hello is much less demanding than a workout. When are you there? (Feel free to PM to avoid thread-jacking.)

Katherine
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 12:12 PM   #30
Kevin Daigle
Member Kevin Daigle is offline
 
Kevin Daigle's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Dracut  MA
Posts: 502
Re: The Economics of Membership Pricing

Katherine has an excellent point, and I'll reinforce it with a slightly different explanation.

The problem here is something most of us possess, and that's a HEALTHY dose of kool-aid. Which unfortunately does have long term effects, which include a LARGE inflammation of the elitism gland. Therefore, we get theories and opinions similar to the gentleman claiming if you're not coming 5+ days a week you're basically not worth talking to.

Personally, I'm 3-1 and RARELY miss a workout (on my own at a globo, as CFNE is 40min from me ) However, I played football for 8yrs and I'm telling you right now if you are IN season....and practicing the way you should, you had better not be crossfitting 5+ days a week, thats asinine. In the off-season sure why not.....although depending on the sport, I'd say you'd need a measure of specialization depending on that sport in particular.

CrossFit will make all these athletes better, but IIRC it says someplace on this very website that if you have a primary sport (other than CF) that you will need to work on balancing your rest and primary sport activity. Which as I read it says, if you play football, you're not going to be able to go 3-1 during the season a that would be a ludicrous amount of over training.

There is a HUGE amount of specialization required for each sport which is done outside and separate of CF. These people are hungry to learn and absorb what we're doing.....but they have other allegiances.

I LOVE CF....BIG TIME. However, I no longer have any other primary sport and therefore no conflicts. Refusing to set something up to deal with people who are not devoting 100% of their time to CF is a stupid business model to put it bluntly. Also, the continual questioning of "intensity" that I see around here based on that is also disappointing. Just because someone is applying their intensity to another activity, and not JUST CF does not make them inferior or show a lack of intensity in any way. I understand there ARE people who do lack intensity.....but the serious athlete that just doesn't have the training time available or the busy professional who's trying to work it in are NOT those people.
__________________
Daigle Breathes Fire
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C2 pricing Jason Steele Equipment 11 03-05-2007 03:57 PM
MEMBERSHIP??? Michael Halbfish Starting 9 10-01-2003 06:00 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.