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Nutrition Diet, supplements, weightloss, health & longevity

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Old 11-25-2002, 12:10 PM   #11
Robert Wolf
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http://www.eatwild.com/,and www.paleodiet.com are good places to start for range fed meat.


About mice. They are opportunistic omnivores, much like us. In thier natural environment grubs, seeds, carrion make up the diet (again, much like us!). As humans developed graineries mice and other critters capable of eating this dense easily accesable food source did so. The association of mice and humans with grain is purely a result of the agricultural revolution and is certianly not a reflection of the "natural" world.

The point you raise about prions is intriguing on so many levels and really illustrates the no-mans land that a paleo diet exists in. On one side we have american big business which will subject the natural world and consequently us to anything so long as a profit is obtained (ruminants were never designed to eat grains OR meat byproducts...both are foreign and have the potential for disease).
on the other side we have the "enlightened" vegetarian movement which has been pushing an agenda which might stave off ecological collapse, but is killing us in the process.

Really no one wants to hear that we function best on lean, wild protein sources of animal origin, vegetables, fruit, nuts and seeds (all of these local and in season---no watermellon in december for north america!). These are the most perishible, lowest profit margin items around. All of the SnackWells, luna bars, canned and boxed goods are the profit generators.

BTW-making a diet based off poultry and fish and avoiding mammal meat is a perfectly viable thing to do.
Robb
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Old 12-10-2002, 10:41 AM   #12
sean hernandez mccumiskey
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I recently read an article titled: Bad Politics as Nutrition as Genecide, from the today section here at cross fit. I have began eating a diet consisting of green vegetables, nuts, seeds, eggs and dairy products. I left the meat out because I eat meat only once a week due to the high cost of organic meat. Is it ok to use eggs and dairy products as my major sorce of protein? And are soy products out for this type of diet? does any one have something to say about Ketosis? and do you think Atkins is right about things? well its my second non grain/carb day and I feel wierd and crave bread like crazy. Is this low carb diet going to effect my training performance? why doesnt the coach from the article include thing like carrots, and beats and stuff like that in this diet? I thought they were good for you, at least the carrots.
thanks sean
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Old 12-10-2002, 10:33 PM   #13
Robert Wolf
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Sean here is a post i did yestrday at the evolutionaryfitness listserve:

Coffee, cashews, and dairy cream are all "natural" in that they were not synthesized in a lab but an approach I take (I think most on the list would agree with this) is to weigh the relative cost/benefit of consuming various "non-paleo" items.

Coffee in my mind is the easiest to accept as we co-evolved with multitudes of plants which contained stimulants such as caffeine, ephedrine, pseudoephedrine etc. Ethnobotany seems to indicate that cultures with access to consciousness altering substances used them. What becomes important is the setting in which they were used. Typically this was infrequent and coincided with spiritual/social events. These stimulants were not being consumed in a state which typifies modern life: overworked, underslpet, poorly nourished. Stress in HG societies appears to have been very low by our standards and intermitant in nature.

Cashews are not a legume but they do cantain lectins which can have deliterious effects in susceptable individuals. If i remember correctly they have much more n-6 than n-3 fatty acids...that is doing no one any favors! Finally Cashews have an irritating substance in their outer shell which is similar to that found in poison ivy, oak, sumak and others. it is impossible to remove all of this irritant and again susceptable individuals can experience varring degrees of GI upset and I think an increased risk of permeable gut syndrome.

Cream (dairy) is as neolithic a food as one can find! Dairys' problems in general are lactose intolerance, high insulin response (significant amounts of fats and carbs consumed together) and finally molecular mimicary/lectin issues. Beyond this grain fed dairy has a horrible n-3/n-6 and is very high in sat'd fat...(I know there is some debate about the role of sat'd fat and various diseases but the bottom line is that wild grass fed animals had a very low % of sat'd fat).

When assessing what is "natural" is is very important to check ones frame of refferance...consumption of grains, dairy and other items looks natural because humans have in general been doing it several thousand years...that seems to be a long time. When we look back beyond agriculture however we encounter a lifeway which developed for several million years and it is that lifeway to which our genes are adapted for. Robb

IMO you would do much better eating very lean non "organic" meats (turkey breast, chicken breast, london broil etc) over the dairy. Used as a main protein source I think dairy could ( as I mentioned above) be problematic in susceptable individuals. Additionally, if the meat you are eating says "organic" but does not say "grassfed" you may be sparing yourself from a bit of antibiotics and growth hormone...but the effects these items have on health compared to the effects an excess of n-6 (omega six) fatty acids have...there is simply no comparison. Do not get taken in by gimmicky marketing.

SOY-it lowers testosterone levels directly and is toxic to testicular tissue...I can not say more due to the sheer terror of it.

As to whether low carbing will affect your training...It depends. Dan John seems to march along like a machine with vary low carb intake in the winter months. i did this for about three years and it was great but more recently I have been incorperating some seasonal fruit, carrots, beets, onions and other moderately carb dense foods and have done well. I think I am still under 25% carbs and that seems to work for me. it took me quite a while to reverse my insulin resistance and I think that was why I could not tollerate carbs. I just had a hydrostatic weighing and my bodyfat is at 5%. So now I can tolerate more carbs but I really use how I feel post meal to regulate that. If that does not cover evrything, let me know!
Robb
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Old 12-11-2002, 11:29 AM   #14
sean hernandez mccumiskey
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First off thank you very much for the respons. About the non organic meats you mentioned turkey, chicen ect. yes I am worried about the antibiotics, but my main concern are the nitrosamines. I eat organic meat because it is not preserved with sodium nitrate. on the dairy issue, can you please explain what high insulin response is and what are the facts about lectin/molecular mimicary? when I think about carbs I only think bread and grains, but you said somthing about carrots, fruits, beets, and onions being carb dense foods. I do under stand that these foods have a high amount of sugar in them, but that does not make them a complex carb does it? Could you please give me an example of two days of the Robert wolf diet, and could you please touch a little on the issue of Ketosis.
I thank you so much for your time
sean One more thing,do you eat any grains?
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Old 12-11-2002, 01:24 PM   #15
Robert Wolf
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Sean-
I was not aware that uncured conventional meat is treated with nitrates & thus leading to nitrosamines...I will do some checking but are you sure about this?

Insulin response- insulin is a storage hormone...without it it is virtually impossible to store fat even in a hypercaloric (overfed) state. All of the things Coach mentions in his essay regarding hyperinsulinemia (high blood insulin) syndrome X and the like are a consequence, at least in part, of consuming foods which produce a large insulin response (grains, whole dairy, and particularly refined foods with a large amount of carbs and fat-donuts!). The books Protein Power:lifeplan, the Zone, Natural Hormonal enhancement will really explain the endocrinology here.

For information on lectins/molecular mimicry go to www.paleodiet.com ( I think Coach had this as a recomended site a day or two ago). The long and short of it is that substances in some foods (grains, legumes, dairy) can cause intestinal irritation and permeability. These foods also have sequences of protein similar to those found in our bodies and if large intact proteins pass the intestinal lumen it can sensitize the immune system to our own proteins. A prime example of this is the linkage of soy consumption and Type 1 diabetes which is an auto immune reaction which targets the insulin producing beta cells of the pancreas.

The carrots, beets, fruit you mention are somewhat more carb dense than green vegetables but comparing equal 100g samples of say beets and rice the rice delivers much more carbs and consequently a larger and or longer insulin response.

My diet- I will just give a general outline: 3-6 meals of varring size. Some form of meat, chicken, fish as the base (25-50g protein) and then as much vegetable matter as I can fit in...more dense carb itens are kept to early in the day and post work out...otherwise it is cabbage, collards, spinach...that type of stuff.

On ketosis...I dont know...I do not think it is damaging the way its opponents say but at the same time I'm not sure of maximum performance can be obtained with it. it is often confused with keto-acidosis which is a condition in diabetics...the two states have little in common. When people talk about fasting and the incredible "high" which is experienced after the third day...that is ketosis...I have shocked some hippys with that bit of info!
I very rarely eat grains. My mother has celiac(you will find info on this when you look up lectins) and I am pretty sure I do as well.
Whew!...I think that covers it...If you have anything else, fire away!
Robb
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Old 12-11-2002, 02:24 PM   #16
sean hernandez mccumiskey
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Thanks again rob. About the nitrite in uncured conventional meats, I dont know eather. I just heard that tey rub it on the meats to keep them looking pink and fresh for longer periods of time. As for the truth of it I cant conferm, but I am also going to look into it. One more thing what is the differance between n-3 and n-6 fats? and do you highly recomend kettlebals as much as Tyler Hass? thanks sean
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Old 12-11-2002, 04:56 PM   #17
Robert Wolf
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In a nut shell n-3 fatty acids are antiinflamatory and make up a significant amount of our brain, and n-6 fatty acids are pro-inflamatory. we need both but in the proper amounts & ratios. The Omega RX Zone talks about this. As to the ketlebells...i think they are great. they do offer some unicue training stimulus. Crossfit employs them occasionally. If you have extra money or are trying to do a home gym in three square feet they are a good option. The Thing I think ai have received the bost bang for the buck has to be paralellettes. I think you can find them in the first issue of giriveck magazine.
Robb
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Old 12-14-2002, 11:07 PM   #18
Tyler Hass
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Robb, I have yet to mention parallelettes in my magazine, although I probably will at some point, because they are a lot of fun.
As for KB's, they are awesome, but if on a tight budget, you could buy a 300lb Oly set and a few dumbbells and get more bang for your buck. However, I think Kettlebells are far more fun and versatile than dumbbells. I have gotten an incredible amount of mileage out of just my 1 pood (36 pound), although I now have a 1.5 and 2 pood. The options are endless with these!
I would also highly recommend Jumpstretch Flex Bands (www.jumpstretch.com). These can be used for stretching and to add more resistance to a varitey of exercises.
In addition to this, you can make some makeshift gymnastics rings. Just think "hanging handles", rather than going for an actually ring shape. Ab wheels are also a pretty good value for $9, although you can do the same thing with low rings.
My own dorm room gym consists of 3 KB's, pairs of mini,light,medium and heavy Flex Bands, an ab wheel, Power Putty, Dynaband (almost useless now that I have JS bands) and a pair of 15 lb Clubbells which are awesome. This entire set-up fits underneath my bed. I also have a pair of climbing grips hanging over my door. The only other form of resistance training I do is kicking in my door every week or two (not kidding!) and then fix the door. That's what I love about frat life, mess stuff up and then it's your responsibility to fix it or live with it.
Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions. Sorry, but I can't help too much with the intricacies of diet. All I know is calorie balance theory. For that I would recommend Greg Ellis' book, Ultimate Diet Secrets.
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