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Old 08-16-2012, 05:56 AM   #51
Graeme Moore
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Re: Proposed supplement plan

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
I'm curious, what are your lifts and other training accomplishments? The strength of your opinions might lead one to believe you are quite the accomplished trainee. Is that so?
No, not at all, far from it. BS 315, DL 435, OHP 188 at BW of 203. No training accomplishments of note, especially compared to your good self. CF-wise I'm Level 1 and used to co-run a box about 3 years ago, but to be honest I don't put much stock in that, esp the Lv1. However, I do have an opinion on supplements, based on self-education and self-experimentation. I have found zero discernable effect on myself from creatine or BCAAs for example that couldn't be explained away as a placebo. I do currently use whey powder for convenience and fish oil, but that's it.

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Really? What do you base that on (the men 75-100 years ago being stronger etc.)?
The likes of Goerner (727.5lb one arm deadlift), Inch, Aston, Hepburn etc. My point being that supplements are not required to get strong. Fair enough, as Blair says if you're a pro-athlete or your living depends on optimal physical performance, there may be some margin in it. Although again, there appears to be no reliable evidence that this is so. I would say though that I'd be worried if a pro-athlete was getting their advice from the CrossFit boards.

I don't really have any relevant thoughts on hunter gatherers.

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Originally Posted by Blair Robert Lowe View Post
Graeme, you're pretty right there. If all you are gonna be is a weekend warrior (aka regular crossfitter) or just a regular joe, it doesn't make a lot of sense to get big into supplementation.

If you want performance or to get bigger, stronger, faster...well then after all your bases are covered, supplements may be a boon.

I would wager that the general man a 100 years ago was stronger than the general man but some of the athletes nowadays might be at the pinnacle peak of human strength and speed as for the historical record. Note, Homo Neanderthalensis and other Homo species are not the modern Humans we are talking about.

And please don't give me some BS about Hunter Gatherers were stronger and faster than humans nowadays. Yeah, they might have ridiculous endurance and good strength but they still would not hold their own to some of our current athletes.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:43 AM   #52
Chris Mason
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Re: Proposed supplement plan

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Originally Posted by Graeme Moore View Post
No, not at all, far from it. BS 315, DL 435, OHP 188 at BW of 203. No training accomplishments of note, especially compared to your good self. CF-wise I'm Level 1 and used to co-run a box about 3 years ago, but to be honest I don't put much stock in that, esp the Lv1. However, I do have an opinion on supplements, based on self-education and self-experimentation. I have found zero discernable effect on myself from creatine or BCAAs for example that couldn't be explained away as a placebo. I do currently use whey powder for convenience and fish oil, but that's it.



The likes of Goerner (727.5lb one arm deadlift), Inch, Aston, Hepburn etc. My point being that supplements are not required to get strong. Fair enough, as Blair says if you're a pro-athlete or your living depends on optimal physical performance, there may be some margin in it. Although again, there appears to be no reliable evidence that this is so. I would say though that I'd be worried if a pro-athlete was getting their advice from the CrossFit boards.

I don't really have any relevant thoughts on hunter gatherers.
Hepburn was strong, but nothing compared to the strongmen of today and that includes natural strongmen.

And what was Goerner's 2 hand pull? Not much more. In addition, what you may not realize is that some of the claims made by strongmen of that day were dubious at best. I have the book written about Goerner's life. I know quite a bit about him.

No reliable evidence supplements can provide a benefit??? You might want to do a Pubmed.com search before making such a statement.

Of course supplements are not required to get strong... Anyone who says they are is misinformed. With that said, some select supplements can provide a significant benefit.
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:36 PM   #53
John C Corona
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Re: Proposed supplement plan

I read somewhere, that back in the day, you needed a bodyweight Turkish Get-up just to be allowed in them black-n-white gyms.

And Goerner sportin the Hitler stash, right on! Why'd Hitler have to go and mess that look up for everyone nowadays?

Is it a stretch to think that the processing of foods (and overconsumption of these foods) might be one of the links to increased diseases in our society. It seems that crossfitters, in general, take pride in cleaning up their diet. Why then would you not see supplements as being a processed food type, and then seek to find alternatives. I'd believe the burger meat at McD's is more food than a powder, at least it looks like food. People will limit their fruit to one apple a day, but consume a supplement with corn syrup in it? People will stop taking NSAIDS for pain relief, but will take products that have no regulation, and are known to not divulge all their ingredients. It also bugs me when someone is two weeks into a new diet, trying to remove bad habits and turn over a new leaf, and someone suggest trying a protein shake PWO. C'mon. I get that supplements can benefit an athlete that gets beyond intermediate, and are more advanced in their training, cause I feel they might be more informed at least as to what they are taking. Chris, I love that you are a part of these boards. If I took supplements, I'd be taking your stuff, hands down. I believe you when you say you wanted to create a product with better ingredients, so dont crucify me for some of the statements above regarding quality. Where else can I actually propose my thoughts to the owner of a supplement company. Respect!
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:49 PM   #54
Jesse Emers
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Re: Proposed supplement plan

Thank you Chris.
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:29 PM   #55
Chris Mason
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Re: Proposed supplement plan

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Originally Posted by John C Corona View Post
I read somewhere, that back in the day, you needed a bodyweight Turkish Get-up just to be allowed in them black-n-white gyms.

And Goerner sportin the Hitler stash, right on! Why'd Hitler have to go and mess that look up for everyone nowadays?

Is it a stretch to think that the processing of foods (and overconsumption of these foods) might be one of the links to increased diseases in our society. It seems that crossfitters, in general, take pride in cleaning up their diet. Why then would you not see supplements as being a processed food type, and then seek to find alternatives. I'd believe the burger meat at McD's is more food than a powder, at least it looks like food. People will limit their fruit to one apple a day, but consume a supplement with corn syrup in it? People will stop taking NSAIDS for pain relief, but will take products that have no regulation, and are known to not divulge all their ingredients. It also bugs me when someone is two weeks into a new diet, trying to remove bad habits and turn over a new leaf, and someone suggest trying a protein shake PWO. C'mon. I get that supplements can benefit an athlete that gets beyond intermediate, and are more advanced in their training, cause I feel they might be more informed at least as to what they are taking. Chris, I love that you are a part of these boards. If I took supplements, I'd be taking your stuff, hands down. I believe you when you say you wanted to create a product with better ingredients, so dont crucify me for some of the statements above regarding quality. Where else can I actually propose my thoughts to the owner of a supplement company. Respect!
No offense taken and thank you for the consideration you just gave me. I'll post a bit more about this later.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:22 PM   #56
John C Corona
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Re: Proposed supplement plan

Cool. I did not want that to come across as a back handed compliment. I was generalizing big time to try to support my points. The bad supplement companies that throw garbage in their stuff, have ruined my trust obviously. I also have no trust in the FDA and their relationships with industry, so even if supplements were regulated, Id have issues. If I could ask for one thing, it would just be full disclosure as to whats in stuff, and how its made. But that would be giving away your companies secrets. I guess Im just going to live and be paranoid.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:59 PM   #57
Chris Mason
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Re: Proposed supplement plan

What I wanted to additionally say was that while I totally endorse a diet which consists of less processed foods and the like, that, to me, does not preclude the benefits of intelligent supplementation. While nature is great, I am a big believer in science and what it can do. I think a marriage of the two is ideal.
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Old 08-24-2012, 10:52 AM   #58
Philip Butler
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Re: Proposed supplement plan

About the creatine I suggest trying it before hand and after. How many grams are you using. As far as money goes I recommend Centurion. It has creatine and beta alanine in the same bottle for a reasonable price.

www.thebglabs.com
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