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Old 04-27-2007, 02:48 PM   #21
Franklin Shogie
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I agree with Dale and Dr. G. They have both articulated, much better than I can, cogent reasons as to why the music selection should be more carefully chosen.

but as Valentine Michael Smith in "Stranger in a Strange Land" once said, "I am but an egg"

the link is w/f safe
Old 04-27-2007, 02:49 PM   #22
Greg Varga
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What does granny and the kids have to do with "Forging Elite Fitness"? Are they really CF's target demographic?

The standard "NSFW" label is obviously a quick and practical fix, but that's completely different from the slippery slope that the censorship patrol is suggesting.

And you know what else is getting my delicate panties bunched this week? All that lascivious, filthy, and disgusting lady flesh paraded about in the videos! Where are the burkas?!
Old 04-27-2007, 02:53 PM   #23
Jacob Levin
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Most of the people who have posted at all against the music have suggested that NSFW would suffice.

The original poster hasn't responded since that suggestion was aired. Before we start labeling, shouldn't we give him a chance?

EDIT: Actually, he did post, I lied. Though he didn't comment on the suggestion. While I think the music was fine, I also understand the legitimate points raised by Dale and Dr. G. I don't, however, think that makes them a censorship patrol.

(Message edited by Janarc on April 27, 2007)
Old 04-27-2007, 03:51 PM   #24
Rene Renteria
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Greg casts the worm:
What does granny and the kids have to do with "Forging Elite Fitness"? Are they really CF's target demographic?

I believe they are a significant demographic for many of the affiliates. Is there a “target demographic”? Maybe those other issues seem like slopes because you’re standing on one.

Plays the line:
the censorship patrol

It’s not about censorship. The music is out there for all to hear, TV, cars driving by, Internet, most any store. It’s about choice, judgment, maturity, and respect for others, especially women. It can seem just light-hearted and juvenile, but when it’s not from a light-hearted site or from juveniles, it’s mean and misogynistic.

And sets the hook! Yes!
All that lascivious, filthy, and disgusting lady flesh paraded about in the videos!

I know the joking tone and all, but flesh is just flesh. How one responds to that is totally internal to the viewer. Who’s doing any parading, and what does that mean, anyway? Whores parade their wares. These women are working out in functional, stylish clothes.

Now why would someone who makes a video with lady flesh showing in a non-sexual context think it apt, funny, cool, even natural, obvious, or automatic to pair that video with a soundtrack talking of whores, hoes, hookers, pimps, white stains on dresses, etc., etc. Do you really think it’s just because of the beat? (“haw, haw, he said ‘beat’!”)

How many times does it have to happen before it’s not just coincidence but deliberate choice, whether conscious or subconscious? Could that choice be a commentary on whoever is doing the choosing?

(And why would someone think it natural to pair the two, anyway? Could it be from constantly getting those paired messages, “female flesh, whores!”, “female flesh, hoes”, “female flesh, money!” Again and again and again and again and again and again…)

Break the frickin chain once in a while, rise above. Sure, women are respected here; it gets said all the time. “Look at our athletes!” “Our women kick your men in the a$$!” Then this crap gets posted again and again to the front page? The benchmark workouts get women’s names, and they’re always called “girls”? “I just ‘did’ Helen! s******, s******.” Hello? Who you gonna belive, me or your lying eyes?

Grow the heck up.

(Sure, I could take the stick outta my a$$, but it’s what holds my head there.)
Old 04-27-2007, 07:35 PM   #25
Travis Hall
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Garrett, Roger, Dale and Rene all get my vote.

- t.
Old 04-27-2007, 08:16 PM   #26
Paul Findley
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I don't care about the music, but why introduce something that is knowingly going to be divisive? Were we lacking somthing to discuss?

What is with all the kipping pullups anyway?

How is that?
Old 04-27-2007, 08:43 PM   #27
Dale F. Saran
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Greg - I'm willing to forgive your lack of knowledge because you're obviously new here. But maybe you should read some more of the CFJ's about scalability, and surf around for a while to see the posted pictures of older women doing the WoD, a picture of John Hackelman with his mom on his shoulders, etc. I could go on and on. We're not all bad mo'fo's like you "Forging Elite Fitness".

I don't need the "censorship patrol" label from you, either. I have a law degree. Oh, yeah, and I've spent my entire adult life defending your right to free speech, among others. So thanks. No, check that, your welcome.

If you have some cogent counterargument to what's been posted, I'm happy to discuss with you. So far, you're falling short. You also failed to address affiliates and their businesses and, well, most of the points I raised.

Nick, I respect the way you said what you said, but it's a pretty weak defense. Essentially, we "need" the music to work out? I mean, come on. You ignore what I posted on the main page - these videos are a relatively recent phenomenon. Not all of them have such music. So that argument fails.

Is it intentional then? Is this just a provocation? Does Coach, Tony, or whomever, just love these songs? I don't know.
Old 04-27-2007, 09:13 PM   #28
Michael Lynn
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I'm not a fan of rap, it ranks near the bottom of my music choices. However, I don't see why my tastes should dictate what kind of music someone else works out to. If I posted a video of myself working out, I wouldn't care what someone else thought of my music, it's my choice and it puts me in a place I want to be, and it's a message I want to convey. You might not like it, but tough, it's not your video.

Dale, you said:

"toughen up" and "turn the volume down" are not convincing responses.

but then you go on to say:

For my own part, rarely do I ever use an iPod or music when working out

I'm confused how turning the volume off is any different than having no music at all. The only sound that would be left would be that of the individual(s) working out, and even then I can guarantee you that some profanity will slip in. That PR on your squat or when you're 30 seconds away from your 20 minutes, I know I got to let out something to make room for some more hurt.

With that said, I do agree, this website does have a large demographic, hopefully one that will expand. It's important to work towards these viewers and work towards some commonality. My opinion is that harder songs with less to no profanity should be worked towards, but if the poster wants to choose a song containing foul language, a disclaimer should suffice.

Old 04-27-2007, 11:06 PM   #29
Tyler Hass
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Now here is some irony for you guys...
Tony Budding edits the videos for CrossFit. About four years ago, before Tony even knew the Glassmans, he ordered a copy of the CrossFit DVD. The original soundtrack to that DVD had some NSFW language in it. Tony sent a complaint to the Glassmans about how he thought the music was a bit inappropriate and that he almost showed it in his classroom. So, the Glassmans changed the soundtrack and sent Tony another copy.
Four years later, Tony is the guy creating the videos, and he is loading them up with foul language.
It's pretty funny. True story, btw.

Old 04-27-2007, 11:57 PM   #30
John Seiler
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I finally got around to reading all the comments from yesterday. As I've mentioned, I agree with the practical arguments offered by Dale and Garrett. But as of yet, the issue of etiquette hasn't been brought up. I was shocked at so many people whose basic idea was, "To h-ll with people that don't like it." I guess I shouldn't be. But here's an alternate viewpoint towards fellow members of our community and their guests:

Once I asked O Sensei [the founder of Aikido], "What is the most important thing for one's training in budo?" [In Japanese "bu" means -to stop weapons (literally, "to stop a spear"), war. "Do", means- the way. Hence budo is "the way of bu".] His reply was, "The one essential element is the observance in daily life of courtesy and proper etiquette." The courtesy and etiquette that O Sensei spoke of are more than mere politeness. It is more than just not making enemies. Reigi (etiquette or decorum), written with alternative kanji [Japanese ideograms], also means "spirit". Our attitude and its expression through our actions, shows our real spiritual quality... Courtesy towards others shows your belief in your own spiritual quality. Condescension or rudeness towards others lowers the value of your own character.

The student of budo must learn to be without suki. Suki are lapses in consciousness that produce weak spots or openings. Failures in etiquette and courtesy toward others are suki, and leave you open to the disregard of other people...

Suki also prevents us from fulfilling our responsibilities and from living life fully and deliberately. The greatest masters of all times have always been, and are today, modest and courteous people who live their lives with singleminded purpose... In fact, the truly great people in all walks of life, in any society, are all humble and unassuming people. Such people share the ability of introspection and reflection, and are people of manners and grace. True character knows nothing of race or nation... To change and improve the world we must change and improve ourselves.
-Mitsugi Saotome.
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