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Old 05-22-2013, 03:57 AM   #31
Jeff Enge
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Re: Bowed Legs

Again, you manage to insult two entire professions because you do not understand the distinctions of how they work. Wonder why no medical professionals have bothered to respond to you complaints this time?

You go to the doctor. The doctor does tests and finds at most common wear and tear issues that anybody over the age of 18 that has been totally sedentary their whole lives could have, and minor postural issues that are easily fixed, probably usually without PT. Their options for treatment are referral to a specialist doctor, drugs, surgery or PT. The first three are pretty out of the question - there's nothing for a specialist to look at, who really wants drugs for common wear and tear, and there's nothing broken, so what's the point of surgery? But you insist something is more wrong and so you get referred to the PT to treat the symptoms that actually can be seen, because that's really all a good scientist can/should do.

You go to the PT. They also treat what can be seen, which is what the doctor has seen. But you give them your "felt" symptoms so maybe they look at that. Except, there's nothing in your movement patterns to suggest there is a problem, apparently. PTs are there to provide therapy, by the way, not to be diagnosers of systemic problems. Yes, some can, but that's not their job. That's why you usually have to be referred there by a doctor.

So, to summarize, doctors can't treat what they can't/don't see. So either you have some crazy hidden injury that no one has ever seen and so can't recognize (which I doubt, legs don't just suddenly go "out of alignment" bilaterally, at least not without some trigger event), or you are not able to differentiate either soreness or regular wear and tear from a real problem.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:10 PM   #32
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: Bowed Legs

Maybe it has nothing to do with the bones at all.....Last time I recall someone came here pretty much saying PT was hokum and their issue strangely went unresolved. Your demeanor is slightly combative and your recurrent symptom is "feels terrible". I told you once and have to say it again:

If a dozen doctorate degrees can't figure it out, neither will we.
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:40 AM   #33
Jeff Enge
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Re: Bowed Legs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Enge View Post
Again, you manage to insult two entire professions because you do not understand the distinctions of how they work. Wonder why no medical professionals have bothered to respond to you complaints this time?

You go to the doctor. The doctor does tests and finds at most common wear and tear issues that anybody over the age of 18 that has not been totally sedentary their whole lives could have, and minor postural issues that are easily fixed, probably usually without PT. Their options for treatment are referral to a specialist doctor, drugs, surgery or PT. The first three are pretty out of the question - there's nothing for a specialist to look at, who really wants drugs for common wear and tear, and there's nothing broken, so what's the point of surgery? But you insist something is more wrong and so you get referred to the PT to treat the symptoms that actually can be seen, because that's really all a good scientist can/should do.

You go to the PT. They also treat what can be seen, which is what the doctor has seen. But you give them your "felt" symptoms so maybe they look at that. Except, there's nothing in your movement patterns to suggest there is a problem, apparently. PTs are there to provide therapy, by the way, not to be diagnosers of systemic problems. Yes, some can, but that's not their job. That's why you usually have to be referred there by a doctor.

So, to summarize, doctors can't treat what they can't/don't see. So either you have some crazy hidden injury that no one has ever seen and so can't recognize (which I doubt, legs don't just suddenly go "out of alignment" bilaterally, at least not without some trigger event), or you are not able to differentiate either soreness or regular wear and tear from a real problem.
Fixed myself.
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Old 06-06-2013, 07:35 PM   #34
Bradley James Thompson
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Re: Bowed Legs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Enge View Post
Again, you manage to insult two entire professions because you do not understand the distinctions of how they work. Wonder why no medical professionals have bothered to respond to you complaints this time?

You go to the doctor. The doctor does tests and finds at most common wear and tear issues that anybody over the age of 18 that has been totally sedentary their whole lives could have, and minor postural issues that are easily fixed, probably usually without PT. Their options for treatment are referral to a specialist doctor, drugs, surgery or PT. The first three are pretty out of the question - there's nothing for a specialist to look at, who really wants drugs for common wear and tear, and there's nothing broken, so what's the point of surgery? But you insist something is more wrong and so you get referred to the PT to treat the symptoms that actually can be seen, because that's really all a good scientist can/should do.

You go to the PT. They also treat what can be seen, which is what the doctor has seen. But you give them your "felt" symptoms so maybe they look at that. Except, there's nothing in your movement patterns to suggest there is a problem, apparently. PTs are there to provide therapy, by the way, not to be diagnosers of systemic problems. Yes, some can, but that's not their job. That's why you usually have to be referred there by a doctor.

So, to summarize, doctors can't treat what they can't/don't see. So either you have some crazy hidden injury that no one has ever seen and so can't recognize (which I doubt, legs don't just suddenly go "out of alignment" bilaterally, at least not without some trigger event), or you are not able to differentiate either soreness or regular wear and tear from a real problem.
Well today my pain is worse than it has ever been. At PT I tried to do monster walks with a band and it couldn't because it hurt so much. It came on instantly. The pain is right at the bottom of the patella. I never had pain in that spot before. Now it hurts go up and down stairs, pretty much ever step, and a good proportion of steps on level ground.
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:54 PM   #35
Jeff Enge
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Re: Bowed Legs

If there's pain then there has to be something structurally wrong somewhere.

That's all I or anybody else on the boards can, and have been, telling you.
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:02 PM   #36
Bradley James Thompson
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Re: Bowed Legs

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Originally Posted by Jeff Enge View Post
If there's pain then there has to be something structurally wrong somewhere.

That's all I or anybody else on the boards can, and have been, telling you.
So what do I do about it? I told the PT, but if I'm getting increasing pain, it means their theory of what is wrong, is itself wrong, because their actions in accordance with their theory produce negative results.

And I expect if I went to another PT the regime would be similar, as history has thus far demonstrated.
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:22 PM   #37
Jeff Enge
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Re: Bowed Legs

Already said, PTs aren't there to diagnose structural injuries. If you actually, legitimately have pain, go see an orthopedic doctor.
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:32 PM   #38
Bradley James Thompson
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Re: Bowed Legs

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Originally Posted by Jeff Enge View Post
Already said, PTs aren't there to diagnose structural injuries. If you actually, legitimately have pain, go see an orthopedic doctor.
Do I need to have a structural injury to have pain? I haven't injured my knees in years. Maybe my back. Maybe my shoulders, but my knees have simply been on a persistent downward slope. No injury ever, except for a partial tear to the left quad tendon, which was repaired. 7 years ago.
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:48 PM   #39
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: Bowed Legs

My mind is blown...
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:54 PM   #40
Bradley James Thompson
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Re: Bowed Legs

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Originally Posted by Bill M. Hesse View Post
My mind is blown...
Care to explain?
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