Hammer throw vs. Sledgehammer work

Gregory Spilson · 08-14-2006, 11:23 AM

I recall that some time ago Robb Wolf (I think in a Performance Menu issue) had made the comment that Sledgehammer work was inferior in overall scalibility to a hammer throw. Just curious what the reasoning would be? Not saying that it's wrong, but that I don't know. I thought that part of sledge work was essentially the adaptive response to the impact, whereas there is none in a hammer throw. Thanks for any input.

Jerry Hill · 08-14-2006, 06:46 PM

Never saw that comment but would've liked to read it...

They seem like 2 totally different moves - I have spent zero time throwing a hammer and a wee bit using a sledge. I would say anytime you can throw something your power output is going to be much higher.

Isn't throwing a hammer a violent spin then a throw? Rotation and full extension? Hard to beat that!

Sledge work seems pretty low on the skill scale...

-jh

Josh Brehm · 08-15-2006, 09:23 AM

Sledge work seems pretty low on the skill scale...

Not if you're trying to be able to swing the sledge just as well with your nondominant side as you can with your dominant, and being able to do so with every type of swing there is.

Jerry Hill · 08-15-2006, 10:27 AM

Josh,
I love sledge work, I do it once a week, fun gpp.

"pretty low on the skill scale" as in the Crossfit model of Gymnastics and Weightlifting - Skill progression.

I'm not a hammer thrower but I would guess it involves some type of triple extension; this fits in nicely to the Crossfit model of skill progression. Being skilled in different sledge strikes is not the same animal.

I only use the overhead to ground sledge strike it seems to be the swing that I can generate the most power with - I'm not familiar with the others. When I chopped wood as a kid this was the strike we used also.

There is also the matter of 'intent' with a sledge strike, how do we know if every strike is with 'bad intention' - we would need to strike a force plate in order to know. With a throw or O-lift there is immediate feedback.

This is simply my input into Gregory's question.

In Health,
Jerry

Josh Brehm · 08-15-2006, 05:56 PM

Ah, my bad Jerry. Didn't realize what context you were using it in. In that case yeah, sledge work is low on the skill scale.

Robert Wolf · 08-16-2006, 01:09 PM

Gregory-
Was that in the piece on Multi-dimensionality? Ohh! I think it may have been that when you swing a sledge and hit a tire you really do not know how hard you are hitting the target and thus have no real gauge for power output. In the case of a hammer throw you have a pretty fair idea of power/work output because of the distance traveled (neglects flight path variables but pretty darn close).

I think this may have been when we looked at boxing/kickboxing and the difficulty in quantifying work output while hitting and kicking something. Even D-ball slams are difficult in this respect as one can loaf on the slam portion and still have a rapid cycle time.

Gregory Spilson · 08-16-2006, 02:59 PM

Robb-

Yes, this is the same piece that I was referencing. Makes things clearer now, thanks for the all the replies.

Dan John · 08-17-2006, 01:55 PM

As a hammer thrower, I cringe.

Stuff that works in teaching a neophyte a medicine ball clean is not the same as doing either the Olympic hammer or the Scottish hammer.

I'm not picking on you, Jerry, but "triple extension" is one of the terms...along with core strength...that just makes me want to vomit. I mean, I get it, but it just has this "sound" about it that I just can't stand. Once I stopped "triple extending" in the O lifts, my tech got miles better...

Jerry Hill · 08-17-2006, 07:26 PM

I hear ya Dan...

"Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick. Now that I've understood the art, a punch is just like a punch, a kick just like a kick."
-Bruce Lee

...I was treading in unknown waters with the hammer throw.

Hey, any chance you know Pro Highland gamer and former strongman Steve Pulcinella? He is in the Philly area, a heck of an athlete.

Barry Cooper · 08-21-2006, 07:05 AM

The disadvantage to an actual hammer throw, is you need a field. You can get a good core workout just spinning it in each direction. I would think you could use a sledgehammer that way. Just don't let go!!! You could combine the two, and call it Rage-ham, although I don't know if that works as well as Rageball.

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08-14-2006, 11:23 AM	#1
Gregory Spilson Member Profile: Join Date: May 2004 Location: Detroit MI Posts: 78	I recall that some time ago Robb Wolf (I think in a Performance Menu issue) had made the comment that Sledgehammer work was inferior in overall scalibility to a hammer throw. Just curious what the reasoning would be? Not saying that it's wrong, but that I don't know. I thought that part of sledge work was essentially the adaptive response to the impact, whereas there is none in a hammer throw. Thanks for any input.

08-14-2006, 06:46 PM	#2
Jerry Hill Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alexandria VA Posts: 649	Never saw that comment but would've liked to read it... They seem like 2 totally different moves - I have spent zero time throwing a hammer and a wee bit using a sledge. I would say anytime you can throw something your power output is going to be much higher. Isn't throwing a hammer a violent spin then a throw? Rotation and full extension? Hard to beat that! Sledge work seems pretty low on the skill scale... -jh

08-15-2006, 09:23 AM	#3
Josh Brehm Member Profile: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Dallas Oregon Posts: 560	Sledge work seems pretty low on the skill scale... Not if you're trying to be able to swing the sledge just as well with your nondominant side as you can with your dominant, and being able to do so with every type of swing there is.

08-15-2006, 10:27 AM	#4
Jerry Hill Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alexandria VA Posts: 649	Josh, I love sledge work, I do it once a week, fun gpp. "pretty low on the skill scale" as in the Crossfit model of Gymnastics and Weightlifting - Skill progression. I'm not a hammer thrower but I would guess it involves some type of triple extension; this fits in nicely to the Crossfit model of skill progression. Being skilled in different sledge strikes is not the same animal. I only use the overhead to ground sledge strike it seems to be the swing that I can generate the most power with - I'm not familiar with the others. When I chopped wood as a kid this was the strike we used also. There is also the matter of 'intent' with a sledge strike, how do we know if every strike is with 'bad intention' - we would need to strike a force plate in order to know. With a throw or O-lift there is immediate feedback. This is simply my input into Gregory's question. In Health, Jerry

08-15-2006, 05:56 PM	#5
Josh Brehm Member Profile: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Dallas Oregon Posts: 560	Ah, my bad Jerry. Didn't realize what context you were using it in. In that case yeah, sledge work is low on the skill scale.

08-16-2006, 01:09 PM	#6
Robert Wolf Member Profile: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chico CA Posts: 2,669	Gregory- Was that in the piece on Multi-dimensionality? Ohh! I think it may have been that when you swing a sledge and hit a tire you really do not know how hard you are hitting the target and thus have no real gauge for power output. In the case of a hammer throw you have a pretty fair idea of power/work output because of the distance traveled (neglects flight path variables but pretty darn close). I think this may have been when we looked at boxing/kickboxing and the difficulty in quantifying work output while hitting and kicking something. Even D-ball slams are difficult in this respect as one can loaf on the slam portion and still have a rapid cycle time.

08-16-2006, 02:59 PM	#7
Gregory Spilson Member Profile: Join Date: May 2004 Location: Detroit MI Posts: 78	Robb- Yes, this is the same piece that I was referencing. Makes things clearer now, thanks for the all the replies.

08-17-2006, 01:55 PM	#8
Dan John Departed Profile: Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 365	As a hammer thrower, I cringe. Stuff that works in teaching a neophyte a medicine ball clean is not the same as doing either the Olympic hammer or the Scottish hammer. I'm not picking on you, Jerry, but "triple extension" is one of the terms...along with core strength...that just makes me want to vomit. I mean, I get it, but it just has this "sound" about it that I just can't stand. Once I stopped "triple extending" in the O lifts, my tech got miles better...

08-17-2006, 07:26 PM	#9
Jerry Hill Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alexandria VA Posts: 649	I hear ya Dan... "Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick. Now that I've understood the art, a punch is just like a punch, a kick just like a kick." -Bruce Lee ...I was treading in unknown waters with the hammer throw. Hey, any chance you know Pro Highland gamer and former strongman Steve Pulcinella? He is in the Philly area, a heck of an athlete.

08-21-2006, 07:05 AM	#10
Barry Cooper Member Profile: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 2,188	The disadvantage to an actual hammer throw, is you need a field. You can get a good core workout just spinning it in each direction. I would think you could use a sledgehammer that way. Just don't let go!!! You could combine the two, and call it Rage-ham, although I don't know if that works as well as Rageball.