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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 09-08-2014, 11:47 PM   #11
Mario Beltran
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Re: Simple and sinister

just google 10,000 kb swing program by Dan John.

it's 5 times 10-15-25-50 swings, rest by feel.
in between sets do a strength move, whatever you feel like.

I normally do, dips, pullups, hspu and pistols.

you do this workout either 4 times a week or 5 times a week. depending on that it will last 4 or 5 weeks.
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Old 09-09-2014, 03:34 AM   #12
Bob Herald
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Re: Simple and sinister

Simple and sinister

Start at 50 swings and 5 getups per side. Do this workout on most days, only taking days off when needed. Use 24kg for a strong man, 16kg for a woman or weak man.

Progress slowly to 100 one arm swings and 5 getups per side. When this can be done easily on any given day. Go up a bell size (32kg) and start over. Don't rush the progression.

The "simple goal" is to do the total workout easily on any give. Day with the 32kg

The "sinister goal" is to do the total workout on any given day with the 48kg beast.


I like this workout so far after 3 weeks. I'm still on the 24kg. It's easy the first few days of the week but after day 3 or so it gets harder.

I add pullup ladders one day and dip ladders the next. My total workout takes 20 minutes, and I have a squat, hinge, grind, push and pull.

I still have energy for bjj and other activities in the day. My traditional strength training programs left my run down. I'm 37 so recovery is of prime importance. I think for a young guy I would stick with heavy deadlifts, squats, and bench. But at my age I have to think training longevity.

Hope this gives you an idea
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Old 09-09-2014, 06:21 PM   #13
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Simple and sinister

It does thanks
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Experience is a hard teacher because they gives the test first, and the lessons afterwards. - Vernon Sanders Law
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:34 AM   #14
Dakota Base
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Re: Simple and sinister

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Originally Posted by Bob Herald View Post
I'm not sure but I've heard people have increased their deadlifts with nothing but heavy swings. I think it has to do with the high volume and frequency of swings without the CNS fatigue of deadlifting...
It has more to do with the fact that they are undertrained in deadlift and haven't properly programmed for developing it.

You only hear this from one of two groups of people:

1) Undertrained, non-strength based folks that wish they were strength folks - i.e. folks that had really poor deadlift numbers, so improving isn't really that hard, and any post chain work would help them. So very many of these folks attribute their difficulties in training due to "CNS fatigue," when they haven't actually ever reached that point, but rather have extreme muscle soreness or lactic build up, OR they haven't rested properly to let their muscles rebuild and promote strength increases. Kinda like the "I worked out the first time in my life, I felt like crap the next day, it must be rhabdo!" crowd...

2) Over-trained strength based folks that needed a deload cycle to break through a plateau. They don't gain DURING that deload, but they finally get the rest they desperately needed, then when they come back to the barbell for a couple weeks, they can rebuild progression. This is the "stop beating your head on the wall headache cure".
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Old 09-11-2014, 04:49 PM   #15
Bob Herald
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Re: Simple and sinister

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Originally Posted by Dakota Base View Post
It has more to do with the fact that they are undertrained in deadlift and haven't properly programmed for developing it.

You only hear this from one of two groups of people:

1) Undertrained, non-strength based folks that wish they were strength folks - i.e. folks that had really poor deadlift numbers, so improving isn't really that hard, and any post chain work would help them. So very many of these folks attribute their difficulties in training due to "CNS fatigue," when they haven't actually ever reached that point, but rather have extreme muscle soreness or lactic build up, OR they haven't rested properly to let their muscles rebuild and promote strength increases. Kinda like the "I worked out the first time in my life, I felt like crap the next day, it must be rhabdo!" crowd...

2) Over-trained strength based folks that needed a deload cycle to break through a plateau. They don't gain DURING that deload, but they finally get the rest they desperately needed, then when they come back to the barbell for a couple weeks, they can rebuild progression. This is the "stop beating your head on the wall headache cure".
That's not accurate. Powerlifter Andy Bolten attributes heavy swing to increasing his deadlift to 900 pounds for a triple. A simple google search reveals many others that use swings as a dynamic lift for the deadlift. I would be interested to see some articles supporting your opinion though ...
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Old 09-11-2014, 04:51 PM   #16
Bob Herald
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Re: Simple and sinister

https://www.facebook.com/completestr...21657294589604

(Wfs)
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Old 09-11-2014, 06:41 PM   #17
Chris Mason
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Re: Simple and sinister

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Hi all. Has anyone tried pavels simple and sinister or Dan Johns 10,000 swings program??? In essence S&S is performing 50 (eventually 100) kettlebell swings and 10 TGU a day. In theory it will build strength (without size) and allow energy for other athletic endeavors.

This seems good for me because I like the flexibility and can do it from home and allow energy for my Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Also i have added 50 pullups and 50 dips every 3 days at bodyweight. Just because I love pullups and dips.

My goals that I hope to gain from this program are
1.) increase my relative strength
2.) lose some bodyfat
3) increase my mobility

I obviously have stopped deadlifting and i am interested to see what will happen to my posterior chain strength. Deadlift has always wiped out my CNS and made the next couple days of jiujitsu rough for me. So let see
A program like that isn't going to build maximal strength, or explosive strength both of which would be of benefit to your martial arts. It will build strength endurance which can be a benefit to the jiu-jitsu. With that said, there are other methods which would be of greater benefit to your goals.
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Old 09-12-2014, 02:39 AM   #18
Bob Herald
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Re: Simple and sinister

Chris I definitely realize that. I know that a program like westside or 5/3/1 would be better for strength and explosiveness. I don't by any means think the kettlebell is the end all be all. It's just that right now in my life the simplicity and convenience makes sense. If you have other methods I can do from home and while traveling I'm all ears ?

Thanks
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Old 09-12-2014, 02:56 AM   #19
Bob Herald
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Re: Simple and sinister

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22580981
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Old 09-12-2014, 07:52 AM   #20
Adam Shreim
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Re: Simple and sinister

So, I have finished 6 workouts of the 10,000 swing program. Will be excited to see what happens after rep 10,000. I am not sure it will be magical, I am mainly hoping for some fat loss around my waist. I am also including every other day recovery swim (short) sessions, as well.

I have only been able to hit the '50' set of the 10-15-25-50 scheme in the first round, though. I am still working towards trying to finish multiple sets without breaks on the 50s. Average time of completion is about 35-45 minutes. I wasn't taking the full 3 minute rest period in between sets, like the program called for. So it bumped my time back out on days 5 and 6.

I could see my deadlift going up a little bit after this program, though. I will make sure to re-test my 1RM afterwards. I plan on doing a low volume dynamic/speed day 3 days after swing 10,000 and then re-test the 1RM 2-3 days after that. I have to re-train my body for traditional deadlifts. I have only been doing weightlifting clean and snatch deadlifts/pulls and need to ensure proper mechanics for a true 1RM.
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