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Old 06-15-2011, 12:39 PM   #21
Michael Dowling
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Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

if you can only do 8 strict pull ups who cares about kipping, you need to be stronger before kipping anyway... don't even worry about kipping until you can do 20 unbroken strict pull ups.

as for the rest instead of DU's just do singles, instead of HSPU just do them off a box or whatever. a ton of people can't do these movements and they just scale them.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:42 PM   #22
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

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Originally Posted by David Hansen View Post
I don't really see what relevance my strength has with regard to my limitations in coordination, balance, timing, and control.
It all ties together. Someone with weak legs and a weak core will be more likely to fall than someone with strong legs and a strong core -- if the stronger person stumbles, it will be easier for them to recover. Strength gives confidence, too: it's a lot easier to balance a weight on your back if you know you won't get crushed by it, a lot easier to do a handstand if you know your shoulders won't collapse.

It sounds to me like your problem is a combination of poor coaching, impatience, and a defeatist attitude. Until you fix those, talking about "inherent limitations" is just making excuses.

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Old 06-15-2011, 01:17 PM   #23
David Hansen
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Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

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Originally Posted by Michael Dowling View Post
if you can only do 8 strict pull ups who cares about kipping, you need to be stronger before kipping anyway... don't even worry about kipping until you can do 20 unbroken strict pull ups.
Sure, I understand this, and I'm working on increasing my muscular endurance( not so much an issue of raw strength here ).

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It all ties together. Someone with weak legs and a weak core will be more likely to fall than someone with strong legs and a strong core -- if the stronger person stumbles, it will be easier for them to recover. Strength gives confidence, too: it's a lot easier to balance a weight on your back if you know you won't get crushed by it, a lot easier to do a handstand if you know your shoulders won't collapse.
Well, I agree with this line of reasoning, but I'm unclear if you're saying it definitively applies to me. I have a 384# DL, a 240# BS, 235# BP, and a 155# OHP. I understand my numbers aren't huge, especially my squat, and I am actively working on it, but from what I've read of strength standards, I'm not *that* weak, per se.

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It sounds to me like your problem is a combination of poor coaching, impatience, and a defeatist attitude. Until you fix those, talking about "inherent limitations" is just making excuses.
Fair enough, although I would argue that defeatist attitudes adopted after presentation of evidence( of absolutely zero improvement despite effort )are entirely rational. Which is exactly why I am soldiering onward with the aspects of CF that actually do exhibit improvement.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:31 PM   #24
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

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Well, I agree with this line of reasoning, but I'm unclear if you're saying it definitively applies to me. I have a 384# DL, a 240# BS, 235# BP, and a 155# OHP. I understand my numbers aren't huge, especially my squat, and I am actively working on it, but from what I've read of strength standards, I'm not *that* weak, per se.
In your case, I'd be more inclined to suspect imbalances and mobility issues. Your bench press is out of proportion, which often correlates with reduced shoulder mobility. That would make any kind of overhead work more difficult. Post video.

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Fair enough, although I would argue that defeatist attitudes adopted after presentation of evidence( of absolutely zero improvement despite effort )are entirely rational.
Humans are very good at rationalizing whatever decisions they make.

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Old 06-15-2011, 01:33 PM   #25
Vickie Ellickson
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Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

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Fair enough, although I would argue that defeatist attitudes adopted after presentation of evidence( of absolutely zero improvement despite effort )are entirely rational. Which is exactly why I am soldiering onward with the aspects of CF that actually do exhibit improvement.
Ok, but it seems like it was a lot of effort with very little coaching (or the type of coaching that you needed). My point being, your body is likely capable of performing the skills.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:40 PM   #26
Michael Dowling
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Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

i don't think his bench is really out of proportion, my max bench is about 255 on bench and i can strict press 170 once. they're never going to be that close unless you have a really weak under-developed chest.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:51 PM   #27
Vickie Ellickson
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Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

My guess is that the imbalance is between the bench and squat. Being able to squat only 5lb more than you bench may be an indicator that the lower body development is lagging behind the upper body development.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:54 PM   #28
Michael Dowling
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Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

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My guess is that the imbalance is between the bench and squat. Being able to squat only 5lb more than you bench may be an indicator that the lower body development is lagging behind the upper body development.
his deadlift is like 140 lbs more than his back squat which is odd, i would guess he can squat a lot more than 240 but probably just doesn't go much higher in his workouts. if he's deadlifting nearly 400 lbs i would imagine he could squat 300 at least fairly easily with minimal work.

maybe i'm the freak my DL and squat are like 30 lbs off.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:56 PM   #29
Aushion Chatman
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Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

You just need a trainer you jive with better...and pushes you without getting exasperated.

I've seen some pretty uncoordinated folks come through our doors...and yeah it's taken some of those kids years (with and 's' at the end) to accomplish some skills that others take 3 minutes to get down (double unders, muscle ups, kipping pull ups etc).

We have one young lady in particular (Eric Montgomery can attest) who works harder than most anyone else (too much at times), but it's because she has to, she has NO natural coordination. She weighs maybe 115-120# and I believe has a 300# deadlift. Because deads require little coordination, just set your back and pull...to this day one of the scariest things I can do in the gym is put a 20" box in front of her and tell her to jump on top...she's had more than one spill (that I'm aware of, we're talking falling off the OTHER side of the box, not shin scrapes). She's reigned it in, she had the best oly lifts I've ever seen from her in two years the other night, a girl who couldn't find the coodination for a box jump is snatching. have patience man.

You can design a great workout program without any of the skills you mentioned you have problems with, and if the limitation was injury related I would advocate that. But because you used words like, "never", "can't" then you should do the opposite. If I was your trainer you'd be doing handstands until you get a hspu or you died, whichever came first.

not sure who told you the average for learning skills (a week for jump rope, two weeks for kipping pull ups), but even if those were accurate, those stats are not relevant...
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Old 06-15-2011, 02:43 PM   #30
David Hansen
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Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

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his deadlift is like 140 lbs more than his back squat which is odd, i would guess he can squat a lot more than 240 but probably just doesn't go much higher in his workouts..
My strength imbalances are no great secret. Before CF, I spent about two years sitting on my *** and letting myself go. But prior to that, I was doing a typical globo-oriented strength program. Lots of deadlifting and benchpressing, but I rarely did squats. So when I started lifting again, even two years later, the foundations were still there for DL and BP and not so much for BS.

Also, I don't have a cage or a spotter for my squats, so I don't truly know my 1RM - it may be higher, but I don't trust my bailout skills enough to find out.

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We have one young lady in particular (Eric Montgomery can attest) who works harder than most anyone else (too much at times), but it's because she has to, she has NO natural coordination. She weighs maybe 115-120# and I believe has a 300# deadlift. Because deads require little coordination, just set your back and pull...to this day one of the scariest things I can do in the gym is put a 20" box in front of her and tell her to jump on top...she's had more than one spill (that I'm aware of, we're talking falling off the OTHER side of the box, not shin scrapes). She's reigned it in, she had the best oly lifts I've ever seen from her in two years the other night, a girl who couldn't find the coodination for a box jump is snatching..
That's a great story. It sounds like you guys really have your **** together down there. Too bad you're 2 hours away, with traffic on the 5. I don't suppose there's any trainer in particular that you can recommend in Orange County?
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