CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Exercises
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-15-2011, 08:37 AM   #11
David Hansen
Member David Hansen is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tustin  CA
Posts: 148
Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam adkins View Post
Your signature says you have been crossfitting since march of this year. It is now 3 MONTHS later and you are lamenting the fact that some things will never improve.
And yet, Marcus claims that the 30+ days I spent greasing the groove would have solved my issues. In fact, I have made literally zero progress on two of the skills, and insignificant progress on the other.

Meanwhile, my strength, power, and endurance gains have been fantastic.

What conclusion would you draw in my position?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia View Post
But if a limitation is just LEARNING a skill... dude, just keep practising and learn it!
How much practice would you recommend? If I linearly extrapolate my progress from the last month out to one full year of daily practice, on all skills, I will have 124 single rope jumps( on average ), zero kips, and zero handstands. This is in stark contrast to the claims I have read that most people learn to jump rope inside a week, and do handstands and learn to kip within two weeks.

It's clear that the zeitgeist on this board is that coordination and balance are *not* fundamental constraints, but for me they really are. They are not things that develop with practice for me. I am 32 years old, my cerebellum is no longer plastic, and when it was, I did not participate in sports of any kind. What you guys are suggesting is akin to telling an adult with a speech impediment originating from childhood to "just practice speaking correctly".

I didn't start this thread to discuss impossible skills development.
__________________
M/32/6'3''/210# - CFT 809
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 08:40 AM   #12
Michael Dowling
Member Michael Dowling is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Goshen  NY
Posts: 733
Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hansen View Post
to focus on one of my glaring weaknesses( metcons ), maintain strength, and avoid limitations that I know I will never overcome( jumping rope, handstands, kipping pullups ).
if you don't ever want to do handstand push ups, kipping pull ups, jump rope, double unders etc... maybe just look programming completely outside of crossfit because all those things are pretty widely used and necessary for crossfit.
__________________
LOG
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 08:42 AM   #13
Chris Walls
Affiliate Chris Walls is offline
 
Chris Walls's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Battleford  SK Canada
Posts: 1,722
Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

Do you have a coach? An in-person, hands-on coach? Have you posted any videos to digital coaching?

I've had people learn to kip in minutes, months, or a year+... really depends on the person and where they are starting from. Same with HSPU. I have a trainee right now that won't even be trying handstands for some time, we're a couple months in and his squat is just starting to look somewhat normal, but has a ways to go yet.

Everyone is different. Get a coach.
__________________
Accept no excuses, only results
CrossFit North Battleford
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 08:53 AM   #14
Katherine Derbyshire
Member Katherine Derbyshire is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seattle  WA
Posts: 7,596
Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hansen View Post
I am 32 years old, my cerebellum is no longer plastic, and when it was, I did not participate in sports of any kind. What you guys are suggesting is akin to telling an adult with a speech impediment originating from childhood to "just practice speaking correctly".
I was in my late 20s when I started aikido, after avoiding almost all physical activity for most of my life. Crossfit is *way* easier than aikido.

You're right, it's probably too late for you to become an Olympic gymnast, but that's not the goal you're trying to reach.

Katherine
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 11:38 AM   #15
David Hansen
Member David Hansen is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tustin  CA
Posts: 148
Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Walls View Post
Do you have a coach? An in-person, hands-on coach? Have you posted any videos to digital coaching?

I've had people learn to kip in minutes, months, or a year+... really depends on the person and where they are starting from. Same with HSPU. I have a trainee right now that won't even be trying handstands for some time, we're a couple months in and his squat is just starting to look somewhat normal, but has a ways to go yet.

Everyone is different. Get a coach.
The onramp program at the affiliate I just quit had basic movement coaching, yes. Once out of onramp, though, the box owners basically just ran/led the warmup/strength/wods, without much in the way of coaching. The box owners do offer personal training outside normal hours, though. I tried it once, and the box owner just got exasperated by my inability to do a basic swing without flailing about wildly, so I spent the rest of the time deadlifting

I have not posted videos to digital coaching, but I've watched plenty of them and read countless threads on problems similar to my own limitations. Most of these people get it fairly easily, usually well within a week.

Have you *really* had trainees who took a full year to learn how to kip, and they finally succeeded? That sounds rather far-fetched.
__________________
M/32/6'3''/210# - CFT 809
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 12:02 PM   #16
Katherine Derbyshire
Member Katherine Derbyshire is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seattle  WA
Posts: 7,596
Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hansen View Post
The onramp program at the affiliate I just quit had basic movement coaching, yes. Once out of onramp, though, the box owners basically just ran/led the warmup/strength/wods, without much in the way of coaching. The box owners do offer personal training outside normal hours, though. I tried it once, and the box owner just got exasperated by my inability to do a basic swing without flailing about wildly, so I spent the rest of the time deadlifting

I have not posted videos to digital coaching, but I've watched plenty of them and read countless threads on problems similar to my own limitations. Most of these people get it fairly easily, usually well within a week.

Have you *really* had trainees who took a full year to learn how to kip, and they finally succeeded? That sounds rather far-fetched.
How many strict pullups can you do? If the number is low or zero, your shoulders would probably be happier if you got stronger first before trying to kip.

Similarly with the HSPU. If your strict press is less than bodyweight, HSPUs are going to be tougher for you than they would be for a stronger person.

A coach who gives up on a trainee within a single coaching session -- regardless of the skill being taught -- is not worth the money he's charging. You're definitely better off without that particular affiliate.

Katherine
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 12:08 PM   #17
Vickie Ellickson
Member Vickie Ellickson is offline
 
Vickie Ellickson's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Spokane  WA
Posts: 2,549
Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

Is it safe to assume that you can knock out 10 or so dead-hang pullups?

The difference between reading and watching vids of people doing skill work and posting a video of YOU doing skill work is that others can identify and give specific feedback on whatever it is that is holding you back.

It doesn't sound like you've had enough hands-on coaching or feedback on the skills you are trying to learn. Unfortunate, but unless you're physically impaired from performing a skill, it is not impossible to achieve.

Also, IMO, if you are using your old age of 32y/o as a limiting factor to learn skills/balance/rythym or whatever you think your issue is, you've got a defeatist attitude that no amount of coaching or practice will overcome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 12:15 PM   #18
Rebecca Roth
Member Rebecca Roth is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Saint Louis  MO
Posts: 2,048
Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hansen View Post
Have you *really* had trainees who took a full year to learn how to kip, and they finally succeeded? That sounds rather far-fetched.
It tends to be a very skill oriented movement that requires very specific abilities when it comes to coordination, in fact its typical the same folks who can't kip are also the ones who can't do DUs, even after a long time. I know of two examples at my affiliate who can do strict pullups with a 45lb vest, but neither can kip purely because lack of coordination, both have been with the gym for over a year, one of them just got his first DU after two years of working at it. Unlike strength or mobility, skills tend to not progress linearly.
Everyone has their "goats", it just means you have to put in more time on those things, with added time and effort - even (or especially) on skill work - you WILL improve, it just might not be in the time you want.
__________________
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack in will. - Vince Lombardi

Last edited by Rebecca Roth : 06-15-2011 at 12:19 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 12:16 PM   #19
Gary Butterfield
Member Gary Butterfield is offline
 
Gary Butterfield's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Leeds  England
Posts: 80
Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hansen View Post
And yet, Marcus claims that the 30+ days I spent greasing the groove would have solved my issues. In fact, I have made literally zero progress on two of the skills, and insignificant progress on the other.

Meanwhile, my strength, power, and endurance gains have been fantastic.

What conclusion would you draw in my position?



How much practice would you recommend? If I linearly extrapolate my progress from the last month out to one full year of daily practice, on all skills, I will have 124 single rope jumps( on average ), zero kips, and zero handstands. This is in stark contrast to the claims I have read that most people learn to jump rope inside a week, and do handstands and learn to kip within two weeks.

It's clear that the zeitgeist on this board is that coordination and balance are *not* fundamental constraints, but for me they really are. They are not things that develop with practice for me. I am 32 years old, my cerebellum is no longer plastic, and when it was, I did not participate in sports of any kind. What you guys are suggesting is akin to telling an adult with a speech impediment originating from childhood to "just practice speaking correctly".

I didn't start this thread to discuss impossible skills development.

I know where you're coming from here mate and I can easily see how watching other athletes at your box grasping these techniques can be frustrating. I woudn't dispare though, all these movements are pretty tough and require a lot of coordination and even more so technique. Techniques are learnt, not hereditary, it's the old nature over nuture debate.

It took me around 4 months to finally get into kipping, before then I just scaled it down to do pull ups on the rig with a band. I finally got it though from watching my friends doing it and questioning them pre-wod, and I made myself tekkers days and wod days so I had time to practice.

I wear Vibram Fivefingers so when it came to skipping, if I did it wrong I'd know about it when I cut my toes off! Try training barefoot mate, I still find it tough to skip with shoes on, not only am I heavier, but my feet are bigger from the trainers so you'd have to jump higher, try buying some cheap plimsoles, that'll do the trick.

When it comes to handstand and handstand push ups, I've been CrossFitting for around 11 months now, and I only did my first handstand last week, it's more of a confidence thing for me I think. Make sure you keep your arms locked, core tight, and your shoulders shrugged so you get a good stable joint. I don't think I'll have a push up for at least another 4-6 weeks!

You've just gotta dig in mate and set small goals and targets, but don't give up, you'll get there eventually I assure you.

"Every failure brings with it the seed of an equivalent success"
Napoleon Hill
__________________
"Striving for success without hard work is like trying to harvest where you haven't planted" - David Bly
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 12:23 PM   #20
David Hansen
Member David Hansen is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tustin  CA
Posts: 148
Re: Self-Programming Around Limitations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
How many strict pullups can you do? If the number is low or zero, your shoulders would probably be happier if you got stronger first before trying to kip.

Similarly with the HSPU. If your strict press is less than bodyweight, HSPUs are going to be tougher for you than they would be for a stronger person.
I can do 8 unbroken strict pullups, and my 1RM weighted is +40lbs( maybe more, it's the heaviest my vest goes )

My overhead press 1RM is 155lbs, but my issue has nothing to do with the HSPU, it's with the HS, regardless of the PU.

I don't really see what relevance my strength has with regard to my limitations in coordination, balance, timing, and control.
__________________
M/32/6'3''/210# - CFT 809
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Guy - 41 YO with limitations James D Wilson Starting 7 03-18-2011 06:54 AM
Programming ? Cory Osborne Starting 7 10-06-2008 09:46 AM
Wrist Limitations Brandon Hopkins Health and Medical Issues 2 07-18-2008 12:30 PM
Grip Strength Limitations Kevin Burns Starting 14 07-20-2006 01:49 PM
Limitations of Tabata on Distance Kevin Burns Fitness 6 06-20-2006 02:43 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.