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Old 10-13-2010, 08:55 AM   #51
Darla Powell
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Re: Active Release Therapy / Myofascial Release for Shoulders

Change of plans: Open MRI tomorrow.
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:13 AM   #52
Lawrence "Bo" Boland III
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Re: Active Release Therapy / Myofascial Release for Shoulders

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
You goign to mid-atlantic hopper?

I'll be there and take a look at you but can't promise anything.
I think I'm going as a spectator. I don't *think* I have plans that weekend. No promises needed. You can inspect me as an academic freak of nature in the upper body lol
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Old 10-13-2010, 10:06 AM   #53
Larry Hotchkiss
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Re: Active Release Therapy / Myofascial Release for Shoulders

ART works because it stimulates curclulation. Cortisone does the opposite by eliminating inflamation, which is a natural side effect of the healing cascade. Ive had my share of injuries over the years but because I have alwasy been active aqnd wanted to stay that way I have avoided cortizone injections because they mask the pain but do nothing about the underlying problem.

Ive had prolotherapy done for a few ifferent nagging tendon/ligament injuries with great success. Im sure a lot of folks here will call BS On it, I know a lot of the medical community does, but often times things that arent widely accepted are often the best approach.....ie crossfit for example.

for some info on prolo try google or check out this docs site (WFS) http://www.prolonews.com/shoulder_pain.htm

Regardless of which route you take, good luck and hope you have complete recovery!
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Old 10-13-2010, 10:32 AM   #54
Jakob Schmidt
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Re: Active Release Therapy / Myofascial Release for Shoulders

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
You goign to mid-atlantic hopper?

I'll be there and take a look at you but can't promise anything.
Sorry to hijack the thread for a second, but are you competing Steven??
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:35 PM   #55
Mike Neill
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Re: Active Release Therapy / Myofascial Release for Shoulders

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
It does lessen inflammation.

But generally with chronic problems the issue is not inflammation... its chronic degeneration. If the problem is chronic degeneration then proper rehab needs to be done.

I've never met anyone with an acute injury who has gotten cortisone except maybe like pro athletes.

Yours is definitely chronic so theres probably a lack of inflammation. That's why cortisone doesnt help these types of things. Studies have consistently shown no benefit above placebo at 3-6 months out.
In a different thread (http://www.board.crossfit.com/showpo...64&postcount=8), I said that a second surgeon ordered a second MRI with contrast dye. Sometime after that I started seeing a Physical Therapist. It kept hurting so I went to the second guy and asked for cortisone to knock back the inflammation. He refused, saying the purpose of the cortisone was to make the injury bearable enough to start PT. Because I had started PT, he reasoned, I didnít need the cortisone.

He also refused even arthroscopic exploratory surgery to examine my injury even though he agreed there was a tear. Not sure what to think about that, a surgeon who refuses to do surgery. He insisted that noninvasive therapy was a better way to go. I even told him my goal is to get a 80kg snatch.

That was 8 months ago and things are moving forward pretty well. The PT insists that my ROM would be worse and duration of therapy would be about the same had I gone with surgery. I had some significant pre-existing scapular movement errors she is working on too, and my CF coach attended one of the PT sessions so they conferred about my work - he is programming me according to her therapy.
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Old 10-13-2010, 02:16 PM   #56
Larry Hotchkiss
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Re: Active Release Therapy / Myofascial Release for Shoulders

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Originally Posted by Mike Neill View Post
In a different thread (http://www.board.crossfit.com/showpo...64&postcount=8), I said that a second surgeon ordered a second MRI with contrast dye. Sometime after that I started seeing a Physical Therapist. It kept hurting so I went to the second guy and asked for cortisone to knock back the inflammation. He refused, saying the purpose of the cortisone was to make the injury bearable enough to start PT. Because I had started PT, he reasoned, I didnít need the cortisone.

He also refused even arthroscopic exploratory surgery to examine my injury even though he agreed there was a tear. Not sure what to think about that, a surgeon who refuses to do surgery. He insisted that noninvasive therapy was a better way to go. I even told him my goal is to get a 80kg snatch.

That was 8 months ago and things are moving forward pretty well. The PT insists that my ROM would be worse and duration of therapy would be about the same had I gone with surgery. I had some significant pre-existing scapular movement errors she is working on too, and my CF coach attended one of the PT sessions so they conferred about my work - he is programming me according to her therapy.
Sounds like he really did you a favor. The problem with athletes getting cortisone is, aside from it hindering healing, it reduces pain and takes away the one indicator we have that an injury exists. This usually leads to early overexertion of a non healed injury and additional damage.

The cellular turnover rate of tendon/ligaments is something like a year or more so if those tissues get injured and the healing gets interrupted it can really take a long time for those types of injuries to heal.
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Old 10-13-2010, 03:19 PM   #57
Steven Low
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Re: Active Release Therapy / Myofascial Release for Shoulders

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Originally Posted by Lawrence "Bo" Boland III View Post
I think I'm going as a spectator. I don't *think* I have plans that weekend. No promises needed. You can inspect me as an academic freak of nature in the upper body lol
Haha, sounds good.

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Originally Posted by Jacob Schmitt View Post
Sorry to hijack the thread for a second, but are you competing Steven??
No, I'm not. I judged last year, but this year I'm spectating.


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Originally Posted by Larry Hotchkiss View Post
ART works because it stimulates curclulation. Cortisone does the opposite by eliminating inflamation, which is a natural side effect of the healing cascade. Ive had my share of injuries over the years but because I have alwasy been active aqnd wanted to stay that way I have avoided cortizone injections because they mask the pain but do nothing about the underlying problem.

Ive had prolotherapy done for a few ifferent nagging tendon/ligament injuries with great success. Im sure a lot of folks here will call BS On it, I know a lot of the medical community does, but often times things that arent widely accepted are often the best approach.....ie crossfit for example.

for some info on prolo try google or check out this docs site (WFS) http://www.prolonews.com/shoulder_pain.htm

Regardless of which route you take, good luck and hope you have complete recovery!
Prolo works in some cases.

I would really only recommend it after conservative protocol (physical therapy, rest, prehab stuff, etc.) has been attempted and DEFINITELY before surgery.

Like you said...cort doesn't really solve the problem. I would only suggest it if someone has to work with the injury and need to be pain free, or the pain is significantly hindering physical therapy.

In general, it's not very useful because it doesn't fix the problem but it is useful to eliminate pain in some cases so that PT can be done.
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Old 10-13-2010, 03:27 PM   #58
Jakob Schmidt
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Re: Active Release Therapy / Myofascial Release for Shoulders

Oh, nice, man. I'll be there competing. I'm excited to see what it will be like.
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Old 10-13-2010, 03:35 PM   #59
Larry Hotchkiss
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Re: Active Release Therapy / Myofascial Release for Shoulders

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Prolo works in some cases.

I would really only recommend it after conservative protocol (physical therapy, rest, prehab stuff, etc.) has been attempted and DEFINITELY before surgery.

Like you said...cort doesn't really solve the problem. I would only suggest it if someone has to work with the injury and need to be pain free, or the pain is significantly hindering physical therapy.

In general, it's not very useful because it doesn't fix the problem but it is useful to eliminate pain in some cases so that PT can be done.
Considering most docs are so eager to put you under the knife or have you get an MRI and cortisone I figured prolo was pretty conservative. It certainly isnt a cure all and luckily I havent had any problems that likely wouldnt have healed on their own given time. However, like many folks, im impatient and over the years I have found it to greatly speed up healing of nagging sprains and strains and get me back to action sooner than had I not had it done at all.

Every time I hear someone who is active say cortisone, I cringe because its usually followed by something like "and I was back to my training a few days later like nothing happened".
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Old 10-13-2010, 08:23 PM   #60
Steven Low
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Re: Active Release Therapy / Myofascial Release for Shoulders

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Originally Posted by Larry Hotchkiss View Post
Considering most docs are so eager to put you under the knife or have you get an MRI and cortisone I figured prolo was pretty conservative. It certainly isnt a cure all and luckily I havent had any problems that likely wouldnt have healed on their own given time. However, like many folks, im impatient and over the years I have found it to greatly speed up healing of nagging sprains and strains and get me back to action sooner than had I not had it done at all.

Every time I hear someone who is active say cortisone, I cringe because its usually followed by something like "and I was back to my training a few days later like nothing happened".
Yeah, that's a big problem... and they wonder why it comes back after a couple months and they have to get another one and then another one... and before you know it then it tears.


In most cases, rest and soft tissue work and mobility should heal injuries. That's why I always say to do that stuff first. if it's non-chronic which means that you've had it less than a month it should heal in less than a month.

It's the stuff where you really start to aggravate it over a period of months or years where it gets chronic and then you have some odd problems and conservative treatment may not help heal it will that stuff like PRP, prolo, autologous blood injection, and nitric oxide work well.

Eccentrics are the best for chronic tendonitis problems besides the above treatments from what I've seen int he literature and first hand.
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