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Old 02-01-2010, 12:52 PM   #11
Robert Callahan
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Re: Zercher Deadlifts

For strongmen and others who are going to have to lift with a somewhat rounded back these can be very useful for training so their body is prepared for that eventuality.

As Jamie said though you will not be going near what you can DL though.

And also to be fair this guy had pretty ****ty form, his hips shooting up like they were and allowing his legs to almost completely straighten before the bar started moving...
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Old 02-02-2010, 08:36 AM   #12
Owen Bird
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Re: Zercher Deadlifts

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Originally Posted by Mike Mallory View Post
Curved that far? With that much weight?

Why train for such an extremely rare condition?
You're absolutely right. How many double unders can you do in a minute? :P
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:32 AM   #13
Daniel Higgins
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Re: Zercher Deadlifts

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Originally Posted by Mike Mallory View Post
Curved that far? With that much weight?

Why train for such an extremely rare condition?
While training for movements such as squat, clean, and deadlift you want to keep your back arched or as straight as possible. Its obvious rounding could lead to injury.

But in a practical sense, the rare occurrence would be picking something up that's shaped like a barbell and is 8" off the ground. Someone mentioned strongman events...stone loading is done with a rounded back.

I think the important thing to remember is that barbell lifts are only for training. They are done to prepare the body for practical scenarios that require a similar movement and a certain level of strength. Let's say you run across a situation where you may have to flip a small car on its side. Tire flips, front squat, deadlift would all be applicable. You can't routinely flip cars on their sides in your training because of the risk of injury. Barbell lifts are a compromise here in that they are somewhat accurate representations but with a much lower risk of injury. That's my interpretation.

Anyways, the Zercher DL posted here didn't look too good. Seems like a bad offshoot of the Zercher Squat.
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:34 AM   #14
Daniel Higgins
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Re: Zercher Deadlifts

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Originally Posted by Daniel Higgins View Post
I think the important thing to remember is that barbell lifts are only for training. They are done to prepare the body for practical scenarios that require a similar movement and a certain level of strength. Let's say you run across a situation where you may have to flip a small car on its side. Tire flips, front squat, deadlift would all be applicable. You can't routinely flip cars on their sides in your training because of the risk of injury. Barbell lifts are a compromise here in that they are somewhat accurate representations but with a much lower risk of injury. That's my interpretation.
To be fair, I was thinking in the context of combat or "high risk" scenarios. Most people train barbell lifts that have close to zero expectation of something like that and there are certainly many benefits.
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Old 02-02-2010, 08:42 PM   #15
Chris Mason
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Re: Zercher Deadlifts

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Originally Posted by Brian Strump View Post
If by safe, you mean safe bet to destroy your back, than yea safe. Starting light, progressive or not....If you know spinal biomechanics, those are not safe.
If those are safe, then the most critical part of many major lifts for safety would NOT be to preserve the lumbar lordotic curve.

Strengthening your body in weak positions can be very beneficial if done properly. As to your quote about spinal mechanics, you are simply throwing around a term with no knowledge of what you are actually saying. I am curious, in real life, is the curve ALWAYS maintained? Do we go through life with perfect form in all movements? Open your mind, you will be the better for it.
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Old 02-02-2010, 08:44 PM   #16
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Re: Zercher Deadlifts

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
You back isn't always going to be in great position, especially outside of the gym. Curved back training has it's place in strengthening the the back for times where proper lordotic curve is not possible.

I'm not suggesting you use your 5rm for these.
See, a man who gets it.

How about this:

"Mr. mugger, please stop for a moment as my spine is not in proper alignment while I am trying to fend you off..."
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Old 02-02-2010, 08:45 PM   #17
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Re: Zercher Deadlifts

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Originally Posted by Mike Mallory View Post
Curved that far? With that much weight?

Why train for such an extremely rare condition?
Yeah, why do that? That would be like doing a handstand on a big block...errrrrr..... (note his avatar)
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:49 AM   #18
Brian Strump
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Re: Zercher Deadlifts

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Strengthening your body in weak positions can be very beneficial if done properly. As to your quote about spinal mechanics, you are simply throwing around a term with no knowledge of what you are actually saying. I am curious, in real life, is the curve ALWAYS maintained? Do we go through life with perfect form in all movements? Open your mind, you will be the better for it.
As far as no knowledge of spinal biomechanics, can you enlighten me on what I dont know regarding that? After rotation and axial compression of the disc, a close second in attempt to herniate a lumbar disc is what you see in this video.

And to answer your rhetorical questions...No, the curve is always maintained. No we dont go through life with perfect form. We also don't go through life lifting 150+ pounds from the ground like this guy in the video.
Perhaps we should try to maintain that lumbar curve, and pay more attention to posture of the lower back, and maybe low back pain wont be the 2nd most common reason for a visit to the doctor, behind the common cold.

While I agree to strengthening your body in its weak positions can be beneficial, there comes a time where risk/reward is not in your favor. Like this guy.
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:55 AM   #19
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Re: Zercher Deadlifts

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
See, a man who gets it.

How about this:

"Mr. mugger, please stop for a moment as my spine is not in proper alignment while I am trying to fend you off..."
Chris,

You are missing the point. I know you will disagree, but you may have missed the last line of Jamie's post...."I'm not suggesting you use your 5rm for these".

It's the load(see weights on the barbell) on the spine in that position that is the issue. NOT merely the flexion of the spine.
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:01 AM   #20
Shane Skowron
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Re: Zercher Deadlifts

The guy was hitching at the top, suggesting to me that was close to his max. Hitching on a regular deadlift is bad enough, nevermind a zercher deadlift.
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