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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 07-26-2009, 08:40 AM   #1
Stuart Buck
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What do folks think of Dave Tate video?

Sorry if I missed it, but I haven't seen discussion of the recent Dave Tate video from the main page (wfs): http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...dlift_2pre.mov

1. He says that for deadlift, the shoulders should be in line or behind the bar, NOT in front (which would be the case for Olympic lifting). He has a guy deadlift by saying "shoulders behind like you're going to fall over." This is contrary to Rippetoe's advice, as well as the advice on many threads here. Thoughts?

2. He says that Olympic lifters shouldn't deadlift, and powerlifters shouldn't do Olympic lifts. My response is: Koklyaev (deadlift: 891; clean and jerk: 550; snatch: 462). But maybe he has a point?
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:48 AM   #2
Marcus Allen
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Re: What do folks think of Dave Tate video?

I think the video points out that GENERALLY for Oly lifters, the deadlift is used to set up the other lifts, not an individual lift.

Also, Rip is sort of a rogue agent in power lifting for the mechanic suggestions and techniques he teaches.

Laslty, Tate builds strong lifters so...

ok now lastly... sometimes, like with Koklyaev, we get to see the synergy of amazing raw strength and great technique.
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:50 AM   #3
Rene Forestier
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Re: What do folks think of Dave Tate video?

I found them interesting...they add sme different cues to the arsenal.

I think the "start with shoulders in line or behind the bar" is probably just a cue to ensure direct travel of the bar up the leg, because (as Rip demonstrates by several videos at his certs) in all maximal DLs (ie. world records, etc) the shoulder are always in front of the bar.

Interested to hear other comments.
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:55 AM   #4
Victor Cleere
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Re: What do folks think of Dave Tate video?

1. Interesting discussion. Tate's explanation makes a lot of sense. I always learned to DL with shoulders directly over the bar, weight back on heels. I like Rip's methods, but he seems more Olympic oriented than Tate.

2. I agree with him, at least at elite competitive levels. Also: Misha is a professional strongman, so he must do both Olympic and power lifts! Normal folks could probably get away with doing Olympic and powerlifts.
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Old 07-26-2009, 10:25 AM   #5
David Meverden
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Re: What do folks think of Dave Tate video?

I thought those videos were interesting as well. I'm a rippetoe disciple and so was also temporarily agast when Tate said shoulders above or behind the bar.

After tracking a bunch of very heavy or world record deadlift videos I came to agree with one of the above posts that that seems to be more of a cue to try to get correct body movement and bar path, as it's really rare to see a video where you would truly say the shoulders are behind the bar.

I'm glad Dave Tate agreed to do that seminar and have those videos posted. It's great getting a different perspective on these lifts from someone that knows what they do so well.
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Old 07-26-2009, 11:01 AM   #6
Sam Ser
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Re: What do folks think of Dave Tate video?

well, no one is about to ask ME about deadlift technique, certainly, but i found the dave tate deadlift videos -- like all the previous ones, actually -- pretty disappointing. he doesn't seem well prepared.

also, he sends out some mixed messages.

on one hand, he says you have to have your shoulders and your hips and your (well, um, he talks about "teabagging" the bar) JUST RIGHT, or your lift is going to be terrible -- but on the other hand he says to just walk up to the bar and "pick the ****er up."

you know, if i were paying someone to coach me, i'd hope for a better cue than "pick the ****er up!" and, yes, i can see the value of that for someone who is obsessing about technique so much that his head is preventing him from just giving a big ol' pull... but it doesn't come across like that in the video. as i said, dave seems poorly prepared for the speech.

also, he lost me when he was talking about doing singles instead of high-rep sets. first, he says to do singles, because your form degrades in multiple-rep sets. then, a minute later, he says your second rep in succession is always better than your first. huh? oh, and he also suggests high-rep sets of explosive "dimel deadlifts," which runs totally counter to the focused singles advice. scratching my head on that one.

i know he's really strong and all that, but he doesn't come across as a good coach in these videos AT ALL. it's a shame. maybe this is one of those cases where great athletes don't make great coaches...?
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Old 07-26-2009, 11:07 AM   #7
Andrew H. Meador
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Re: What do folks think of Dave Tate video?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene Forestier View Post
I think the "start with shoulders in line or behind the bar" is probably just a cue to ensure direct travel of the bar up the leg, because (as Rip demonstrates by several videos at his certs) in all maximal DLs (ie. world records, etc) the shoulder are always in front of the bar.
Yup. Interesting cue, but it's not actually how the lift is done. If your shoulders were behind the bar, you'd be almost entirely behind the bar, whereas some of your weight needs to be in front of it. Your center of gravity can't be too far behind the bar's lest you be too far outside of the system's CG, especially because the bar outweighs you by a lot. You just wouldn't be able to move it upwards if your shoulders were behind the bar.
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Old 07-26-2009, 11:17 AM   #8
Oliver Gould
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Re: What do folks think of Dave Tate video?

Quote:
know he's really strong and all that, but he doesn't come across as a good coach in these videos AT ALL. it's a shame. maybe this is one of those cases where great athletes don't make great coaches...?
Nope, I'm pretty sure Dave's record speaks for itself in the coaching field. EliteFTS has produced, and continues to produce, an incredible number of really competitive powerlifters.

Quote:
also, he lost me when he was talking about doing singles instead of high-rep sets. first, he says to do singles, because your form degrades in multiple-rep sets. then, a minute later, he says your second rep in succession is always better than your first. huh? oh, and he also suggests high-rep sets of explosive "dimel deadlifts," which runs totally counter to the focused singles advice. scratching my head on that one.
Check out the westside method of training. "Dimel" deadlifts are part of the repetition method for assistance work, whereas heavy singles are part of the ME method. I think the point of the multiple reps demonstration was to show that people will start to move towards a more "shoulders back" pulling position as they fatigue.
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Old 07-26-2009, 11:34 AM   #9
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Re: What do folks think of Dave Tate video?

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Originally Posted by Oliver Gould View Post
Nope, I'm pretty sure Dave's record speaks for itself in the coaching field. EliteFTS has produced, and continues to produce, an incredible number of really competitive powerlifters.

Check out the westside method of training. "Dimel" deadlifts are part of the repetition method for assistance work, whereas heavy singles are part of the ME method. I think the point of the multiple reps demonstration was to show that people will start to move towards a more "shoulders back" pulling position as they fatigue.
i get that. i just think his advice got all jumbled up in a hurried mash, and i think that's a shame.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:30 PM   #10
Sam Ser
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Re: What do folks think of Dave Tate video?

by the way, i DID appreciate what he said about making your deadilft look like a hinge opening, and about moving your hips toward the bar to get a powerful pull. that was helpful.
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