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Old 01-25-2011, 04:33 AM   #31
Pearse Shields
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Re: Jujitsu vs Muay Thai

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Originally Posted by Troy Becker View Post
Parkour is too fancy, like crane style kung fu or some other crazy dancing acrobatic thing. Just run track for that.

In fact, don't punch once to stun, do the Krav thing and kick in in the nuts, knee him 5-10 times in the face, stomp on his throat, then run away effectively.
Parkour is all about efficiency of movement. It differs greatly to freerunning, which is all about backflips, showing off and jumping from very, very tall things. Parkour is simple, safe, efficient movement, and a lot of fun to boot.
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Old 01-25-2011, 07:27 AM   #32
Becca Borawski
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Re: Jujitsu vs Muay Thai

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Originally Posted by Omar Omar View Post
Is there a down-side to learning multiple disciplines at once, starting from scratch that is. I have been training for a few months now and the learning experience is incredible, I am doing muaythai, wrestling and jiujitsu all together. I find that sometimes when I am sparring it's rather easy to mix things up, but I guess I am still new to the sport.
It just depends how much time you have to commit to the material and how you want the learning curve to look for you. If someone told me they only had 3 hours per week to commit to studying martial arts, I'd tell them to choose one. Otherwise, you're rotating through three arts, never getting to really practice what you learned and your learning curve will be long and slow.

If you have a lot of hours, where you can practice each art, or a combination of the arts multiple times per week, then it becomes much more feasible.
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:10 AM   #33
Nate Aye
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Re: Jujitsu vs Muay Thai

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Originally Posted by Miguel Angel Cortes View Post
Tarun, this is amazing. The gym is about 18mins away from my house. That is not too bad. I'm excited. I will send them some emails with questions. Thanks!



Brian, it seems that this is the consensus around the forum. I had no doubt that CF would be a benefit for people and most of their sports. I am in the process of getting together with some CrossFiters in my area (garage gym). I hope I get the benefits in my sports (Edurance &, soon, Martial Arts/MMA) as you got in your Karate.
Hey Miguel,

Tarun PM'd me with this thread. I don't get on the boards much, but hopefully I can help you out. We were co-located with the Olympian Centre, however they just re-located to Stratford Square mall.

Having been a wrestler for many years, as well as a competitive MMA fighter, I hope I can give you some good advice.

http://crossfitdupage.com/ WFS

Hope to hear from you soon.

Nate
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:20 PM   #34
James Orr
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Re: Jujitsu vs Muay Thai

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Originally Posted by Troy Becker View Post
Parkour is too fancy, like crane style kung fu or some other crazy dancing acrobatic thing. Just run track for that.

In fact, don't punch once to stun, do the Krav thing and kick in in the nuts, knee him 5-10 times in the face, stomp on his throat, then run away effectively.
I practice Shou Shu, an animal based style of kung fu. Crane is our fourth degree. It isn't a crazy dance thing, it's just something that takes about 20 years to get ready to do effectively, lol. Krav and what you described is much more like out 1st degree.

I began with boxing for fitness, then MMA, then wanted something more traditional -- ending up with Shou Shu. I completely agree with everything people have said. The boxing and Muay Thai equipped me for sparring in the ring MUCH better than Shou Shu. Shou Shu has equipped me for defending myself against a group of thugs MUCH better than MMA.

Another reason real defense arts don't mesh well with MMA is simply because we can't do a lot of it with gloves on. Punch and kick aren't the extent of our striking weapons. We grab, we gouge, etc.
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:21 PM   #35
James Orr
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Re: Jujitsu vs Muay Thai

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3kah...eature=related (WFS)

This is an example of one of our orange belt techniques, or at least what it looked like at one point in time (they evolve). You can see why things like this could be effective for self-defense but not the ring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3kah...eature=related
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:29 AM   #36
Everett Steinbarger
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Re: Jujitsu vs Muay Thai

Long time ago I did Siu Lum Pai Kung Fu. Our first forms to learn were the Hung-Gar Crane and Tiger sets. Certainly they were flashy forms and had a bit of Wu-Shu to them, however, the actual SD applications of the crane and tiger forms were incredibly effective.

Wonderfully violent techniques.
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:59 AM   #37
Tom Fetter
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Re: Jujitsu vs Muay Thai

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Originally Posted by Everett Steinbarger View Post
Long time ago I did Siu Lum Pai Kung Fu. Our first forms to learn were the Hung-Gar Crane and Tiger sets. Certainly they were flashy forms and had a bit of Wu-Shu to them, however, the actual SD applications of the crane and tiger forms were incredibly effective.

Wonderfully violent techniques.
Actually, the same is true of traditional karate ... when you look beyond the surface into the applications of movements in the kata. What looks like (and is typically taught as) a simple block etc. can actually be an arm break, a grappling movement to wrench or snap a neck, a strike to the groin etc. etc.

Very much like how people are describing Krav, actually. The problem with karate classes is typically that those applications for the movement patterns aren't taught, so the forms are "empty." One group that's working to teach these applications is found here. (WFS, if your workplace/family don't mind teaching the niceties of joint breaking, eye gouging and similar techniques)
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Old 01-26-2011, 10:29 AM   #38
Miguel Angel Cortes
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Re: Jujitsu vs Muay Thai

I am liking everyone's opinions, experiences and corrections. I am learning a lot.

I know there are several types of martial arts then, underneath that umbrella, there are different versions of those skills. I am learning a lot. Keep them coming.
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:24 AM   #39
Everett Steinbarger
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Re: Jujitsu vs Muay Thai

Fantastic website Tom, really informative. I read through one of the posts about "Dunning-Kruger" phenomenon. Excellent eye-opener.

Back to topic......

One of the reasons I enjoy KM so much is that it takes applicable skills from multiple martial art disciplines and blends them together. There are no forms to learn, only techniques. Far be it from me to say that form/kata are not valuable, the emphasis of KM is to teach techniques that work immediately so that years of training are not necessary for the students to become proficient in defending themselves.
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:40 PM   #40
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Re: Jujitsu vs Muay Thai

I hear you about the value of the almost immediate applicability of (some) techniques in disciplines like Krav, contrasted with years of learning forms in traditional arts before they can become useful for self defence. The traditional martial arts require one helluva big investment before they're really useful, which might or might not pay off. And of course, most of us hope to not be placed in situations where we might find out how good our investment was .

From my perspective, I practice karate for fun, and live where I'm actually pretty safe. So the self-defence skills I've learned already in karate (and elsewhere) will probably be sufficient for my needs, and I've the luxury of going deeper into a martial art that requires a big time investment up front.

The more I think about kata, the more I realize that they're (mostly) fairly generic movement patterns; practicing them ingrains efficient ways of generating and directing force. To what purpose that force is used will vary ... just like learning the clean & jerk movement really means learning how to efficiently generate power in a specific direction. Maybe I use that power to lift a barbell, but maybe to toss firewood onto a tall pile, throw my kid in the swimming pool, etc.. Learn the movement pattern and principles about where it can be applied, and you're good.

I think that optimally, after a certain level the katas practice that. What that movement does in a specific self-defence situation will vary - you'll recognize an opportunity to generate force in a familar way, but in the situation might use that force as a block, an elbow break, a throw, a release out of a wrist lock etc. ...

I think it's up to the teacher and student together to practice that great diversity of techniques for each generic movement, while pointing out where they occur in kata. And then to find ways to practice the kata sequences in various ways (i.e sometimes with one or more partner opponents), varying how the movement's used ... but keeping it situated within the kata.

Why? Because the kata can then turn into really useful shorthand. A set of mnemonics that remind the student of the starting places and principles of techniques. With the ultimate goal that the student stops thinking in terms of specific do-this-then-that techniques at all, and thinks simply in terms of principles of movement, and how they'd impact an opponent's body.
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