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Old 12-18-2007, 02:12 PM   #21
Jay Cohen
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Re: Vegetarian Diets?

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Originally Posted by Scott Clark View Post
With the great dishes you've cooked up and posted, it's hard to imagine you ever being a non meat eater You're making up for lost time in a big way!
Scott, you're too kind.
It was a big decision, but doing more research here at CF and PM, finding local Grass Fed meats, the intensity of Crossfit along with Oly Lifting and I just felt that Meat was needed in my diet.
Best move I made and with the Paleo regime, it's a great fit.
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:26 AM   #22
Emily Glenn
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Re: Vegetarian Diets?

You might also find a book called THE OMNIVORE'S DILEMMA interesting.

I need to read that. My husband read it and liked it pretty well.

DH and I talked last night, and I made it clear that I only want to eat fish that wasn't factory farmed. There are several places around here I think we can get such fish. He is very pleased with himself for influencing me to "give in." It only took him 8 years...

Eating meat the first few times was aquiet thing to be done alone. WHen my family first saw they freaked out...!!

Serena, I saw my situation in yours. It does feel I'll have to ease into this, not start off by going to any fish frys right away. As I mentioned, I've been a lacto-ovo vegetarian for 15 years now, so it will be a surprise to all if I'm eating fish. My mother and my sister are also lacto-ovo vegetarians (they went veg after me, but not because I talked them into it), but my DH, to-be-brother-in-law, and my Dad remain dedicated meat-eaters. My sister went to Europe this past year too, and ate some fish there, so she may be shifting as well. (I guess Europe has that effect on people...more fish, less protein bars.)

I definitely have a fondness for the idea of locally-raised meat; I grew up in a rural area and my family would buy half a cow from a local farmer, or get a hog, and keep the meat in our large freezer. I know people who raise grass-fed beef and sell it to friends and dedicated customers. I think this is a more ethical --dare I say spiritual!?--way to eat meat. Having seen the animal alive, where it lived, knowing how it died, is a more appropriate way to eat. DH and I have a Little Brother (through Big Brothers Big Sisters) and when he was 8 or 9, we had to explain to him that "steak and hamburgers = cow". He hadn't been clear on that. This sort of disconnect isn't good for humanity.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:46 AM   #23
Anthony Bainbridge
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Re: Vegetarian Diets?

I have nothing to add, but I enjoy reading about former vegetarians becoming meat eaters. It warms my heart.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:36 PM   #24
Sarena Kopciel
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Re: Vegetarian Diets?

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I have nothing to add, but I enjoy reading about former vegetarians becoming meat eaters. It warms my heart.
converts all of us!
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:39 PM   #25
Scott Clark
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Re: Vegetarian Diets?

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Originally Posted by Sarena Kopciel View Post
converts all of us!
I bet some of your vegan/vegetarian friends are having a time seeing you chewing red meat
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Old 12-20-2007, 07:16 AM   #26
Emily Glenn
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Re: Vegetarian Diets?

I know my DH feels triumphant that I'm eating fish! He's probably thinking that at this rate, by the time we reach our 60th anniversary, I'll be taking bites directly from living cattle.

Y'all might like this Onion article (it's not available on the Onion site anymore, or I would've linked there):

DESPERATE VEGETARIANS DECLARE COWS PLANTS

LAS VEGAS -- At its annual national conference Saturday, the American Association of Vegans and Vegetarians released results of a detailed in-house study determining that the common beef cow is actually a plant, 100 percent fit for vegetarian consumption.

"Contrary to what was previously thought, the cow is not a higher form of animal life, capable of thinking and feeling pain," announced AAVV spokeswoman Denise Chalmers to the large crowd. "Rather, we have found it to be a harmless, non-sentient form of plant life, utterly incapable of experiencing the slightest pain or simplest thought."

Chalmers then passed around a large tray of dripping red meat, which the vegetarians in attendance ravenously devoured, feverishly licking the bloody juice from their fingers.

According to the AAVV researchers who conducted the study, cows feature many of the basic characteristics of plants. In addition to possessing roots, leaves and branches, cows produce pollen, which in the springtime is eagerly devoured by honey bees.

"The bees swarm feverishly around the cow, eager to get a taste of its delicious nectar," Chalmers said. "The cow, however, is usually too busy taking up water through its hooves, or 'roots,' to even notice."

Cows, say researchers, also practice photosynthesis, the process by which plants convert sunlight into chemical energy.

"When exposed to sunlight, the cow produces chlorophyll," researcher Darrick Holten explained. "The cow then uses the chlorophyll to produce chemical energy."

Added Holten: "A very similar process occurs in chickens."

According to Chalmers, the study's findings will not alter the AAVV's basic viewpoint. "Animals still should not be eaten, and meat is murder," she said.
The study results also shed new light on the reproductive process of cows, which had been shrouded in mystery since the animal was discovered 200 years ago.

"Cows reproduce much like the common pine tree," Holten said. "They develop a hard, bristly, fertilized cone, drop it on the ground and await the natural elements of wind, rain and animal life to carry it to open forest territory."

Overall reaction at the conference was muted at first, as many of the vegetarians expressed surprise, then glee, at the unexpected announcement. Some rushed madly to the trays of processed lunch meats lined up on buffet tables around the hall, knocking over bystanders and onlookers in a mad dash for freshly carved roast beef.

"It does not taste anything like meat," vegetarian Tina Mothersby said. "It's chewy like a boiled carrot or even like a nice chunk of sourdough bread."

Added Chalmers: "Cows are plants, and we feel pretty silly for avoiding them for as long as we have. Inside the stockyard warehouse near my Chicago home is not a meat locker, but a plant locker, and that fetid stench is not one of cow heads festering in a maggot-covered pile, but rather of ripe vegetables ready to be prepared in myriad delicious ways."

Due to the overwhelming acceptance on the part of the vegetarian crowd, the AAVV announced plans to move ahead with studies proving that the pig and duck are plants. Mutton, however, is still meat. -- Janury 23, 1996
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Old 12-20-2007, 08:58 AM   #27
Tom Rawls
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Re: Vegetarian Diets?

The vegetarians I know don't eat meat for ethical reasons. There are strong and principled arguments to support the practice. If you are a vegetarian and are concerned about protein, dairy can be an excellent source (including whey protein). Eggs also.

Also some "vegetarians" won't eat meat but will eat fish, making rational distinctions between mammals and less intelligent creatures of the sea.

I'm not getting into the pointless disputes about the merits of vegetarianism or dairy, just noting that high-quality sources of protein are available.
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:20 AM   #28
Jeffrey White
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Re: Vegetarian Diets?

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Originally Posted by Sarena Kopciel View Post
I too was a vegetarian, raw foodist,, macrobiotic, vegan--just a few to name --for a total of 14 yrs. Then I was enlightened by my CF coach. Eating meat the first few times was aquiet thing to be done alone. WHen my family first saw they freaked out...!! It was really funny. Long story short--went zone/paleo/ and now IF. Within the first few months dropped several clothes sizes. Now 18months later--am pretty stable at size 4/6 from a 14 last August (and previously a size 22).
I am done with vegetarian and am much healthier for it too. All the grassfed meat etc has helped along with the exercise etc to dramatically change my blood sugar and cholesterol too!

You could check my blog or fitday log in my signature for more info--or pm me too!
Really your results aren't surprising.

And they probably have zero to do with adding meat to your diet.

You went from a diet not designed for weight loss to one that is...plus you had 18 months of CF'ing....you probably would've come close to those results anyway. Back in college I lost almost 90 pounds on what I thought at the time was healthy diet. I can look back now and laugh at it, but it was the intense exercise and just sticking with exercising that made results happen.

There are alot of misconceptions about vegetarians (thanks hippies!)...but the biggest problem is that there is a serious lack of information about vegetarian diets and the athlete. It's out there, but you have to really search for it.

Just by the nature of it, it is way too easy to get carbohydrates and then you have a lack of quality complete protein and the absence of certain vitamins and minerals and amino acids that are pretty darn important for an athlete.

Plant Protein is just not that great by itself. (Hemp Protein is good though.) Eating only plants you'll have a carb heavy diet, low or lower quality of protein and missing vitamins and minerals. And usually a lack of healthy fats. It's a noble diet for morality purposes (whether its because of animal cruelty, environmental reasons or you like growing your own food)...but its no wonder that most vegetarians look unhealthy.

If you are willing to use a couple modest supplements, you won't miss a beat. If you think its hard to CF on a vegetarian diet, try bodybuilding on one. That's my background.

I used Optimum Nutrition's Pro Complex Protein. I believe that if you use a protein powder, it should be a mixture of several proteins...this combines Whey, Casein and Egg. A little pricey, but they say 1 serving is 55g of protein...if you do half a serving a day it will last almost two months.

Creatine Monohydrate...well it works and is safe...but seriously though its one amino acid that you will be getting almost zilch of in red meat-less diet.

B-Vitamin Complex. self explanatory...you can miss out on a lot of these in a vegetarian diet.

For those of you who doubt vegetarians and exercise...check out Henry Rollins. I'm sure most of you know who he is. But he's been a vegetarian and powerlifter since the early 80's. The guy lifted for strength, not size, but is known for being a "muscle bound singer".
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:06 AM   #29
Emily Glenn
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Re: Vegetarian Diets?

Agreed, vegetarians have to be much more deliberate than meat-eaters in order to get the right mix of nutrients and amino acids, etc. It is possible, but it takes a lot of concious effort, especially if the vegetarian is an athlete.

I personally think I look very healthy, and I've been told so by others. (I should find a pic and put it in my profile so others can judge this...) But I make more of a deliberate effort than some veggies I know to get a well-rounded diet. I used to work in a crunchy granola healthfood store, and some of the people who worked there looked terribly unhealthy; thin and tired-looking, always getting sick. They weren't really poster children for healthy vegetarian living. Others, however, were as bright-eyed and bushy-tailed as anyone else; I think it has a lot to do with the variety of food in one's diet. I know meat-eaters I could describe with the same sorts of contrasts.

I became vegetarian partly because I just didn't care for chicken and beef (I didn't eat much fish at all at the time), secondly for environmental reasons, and third for ethical reasons. When I see pictures of factory farms, or hear about chickens having their beaks clipped, piglets having their tails docked, because of over-crowding, I'm glad I'm not a part of that. And my disinterest in chicken and beef is still strong. (I was joking about taking a bite out of a cow.) So I want to eat fish in the most ethical, sustainable way possible. My thought about others eating ethically-raised meat is me being a pragmatic dreamer. I know more passionate vegetarians would disagree, but I don't think it's realistic to think that most of the human race would give up meat entirely. But people eating less of ethically-raised meat could happen.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:59 AM   #30
Tirzah Harper
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Re: Vegetarian Diets?

I was a vegetarian for almost seven years...when I started really getting into CrossFit, I added meat back to my diet. Among other things, I think the increased variety of protein sources would be healthful.
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