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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 11-28-2007, 05:55 AM   #1
Brandon Oto
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Keeping the deadlift close

When deadlifting heavy -- maybe not trying a PR single, because then you'll let some form slide, but at a working weight you're repping -- does anyone else find that the most difficult part of maintaining form (not "getting the weight up," but doing it correctly) is keeping the weight close against the body with the lats, and not letting it swing forward?
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:27 AM   #2
Frederic Giraud
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Re: Keeping the deadlift close

I guess taht's pretty much personal, as everyone has his own weakness.

But the fact that you find it challenging to keep the bar close to your shin probably comes from a problem in your form somewhere. Now don't take this the wrong way, you're far more experience then me and all that, but proper bio-mechanics will always remain proper bio-mechanics.

And if your body would be able to do this movement without the brain interfering in the positioning and all that, it would keep the bar path to a vertical straight path, with the bar staying close to the shin without a problem at all.

Perhaps check with some more experienced lifters if your coordination of the knees and hip extensions are in the good order depending on the motion ( going up or going down), once that order is really up to par to proper bio-mechanics, keeping the bar close to your shin should be "natural" ( vertical path, the bar will always be on top of the mid-foot section), now in-order to to have that natural vertical path, of course your lat are gonna be forcing a lot, but not consciously (sp?). Your focus should remains on the hip/knees extension and lower back stabilization.

Just my 2cents Brandon, I hope i'm not coming out with to much of an "elitist" attitude, 'cause im far from being elite... hehe .. but as said before, proper bio-mechanics will always be proper bio-mechanics, coming from the mouth of a knowledgeable novice or a top experienced coach.

Good luck
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:44 AM   #3
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Re: Keeping the deadlift close

I keep the bar as close to my body as humanly possible. I often scrap my shins pretty bad on ME sets. I also am not ashamed to use straps on my ME sets because I'm not trying to build grip strength with this lift. It enables me to focus more on keeping everything tight.

Don't know if that helps?

All the best,
Arden
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:04 AM   #4
Brandon Oto
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Re: Keeping the deadlift close

Frederic, with a proper pull, the shoulders will be situated in front of the bar until the very end (when you rotate into vertical). This requires an active isometric lat contraction to keep it from swinging forward to a position under the shoulders and perpendicular with the ground.

Arden, I do the same with lighter weights and it feels correct, but that's exactly what I lose the ability to do when it gets heavy enough; I want it to be scraping the hell out of my legs, but instead it's swinging in front, and bringing my weight forward and rounding my back to boot. A generally unpleasant situation.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:38 AM   #5
Jay Cohen
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Re: Keeping the deadlift close

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Oto View Post
Frederic, with a proper pull, the shoulders will be situated in front of the bar until the very end (when you rotate into vertical). This requires an active isometric lat contraction to keep it from swinging forward to a position under the shoulders and perpendicular with the ground.

Arden, I do the same with lighter weights and it feels correct, but that's exactly what I lose the ability to do when it gets heavy enough; I want it to be scraping the hell out of my legs, but instead it's swinging in front, and bringing my weight forward and rounding my back to boot. A generally unpleasant situation.

Brandon;
Shoot off an email to Coach Rip, give him a day to respond.
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Old 11-28-2007, 12:28 PM   #6
Alexander Kornishev
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Re: Keeping the deadlift close

I always scratch my shins without any mental effort to keep weight as close as possible and I do not feel much stress on lats. I remember there was a video about DL starting position and depending on hight legs/torso/arms proportions different people had to look higher or lower and also to bend knees accordingly. As you said, in the beginning legs drive more and you start straightening up at the end. It sounds to me that you bend forward more as you drive weight with your legs...It is hard to tell without seeing it... Maybe you can post a video ...
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Old 11-28-2007, 12:56 PM   #7
Brandon Oto
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Re: Keeping the deadlift close

Okay. Here's a video.

First is light (88lb), almost perfect IMO except that I send my knees forward a bit early on the eccentric, which makes me end up with my torso too far back. And my head's up. Whatever. (The pause at the top is because I almost pass out...)

Second is heavier (264lb) and I shoot my hips a little, but you can see how the weight is farther forward (off my legs) and that leads to my back rounding.

http://degreesofclarity.com/misc/cro...n_11-28-07.mov (wfs)
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:24 PM   #8
Peter Abplanalp
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Re: Keeping the deadlift close

well, i'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination but if you slow the video down, the first lift is pretty good but in the second lift, your hips rise about 6-8 inches before your shoulders do. then your shoulders begin to rise but that is due to your back, not your legs. a little bit later, as the bar passes your knees, you begin lifting with your legs again. slow the video way down and you'll see the hips rise with the plates staying put and the pause in the leg extension.

my $0.02.
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:25 PM   #9
Frederic Giraud
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Re: Keeping the deadlift close

Brandon

Look closely at the level of your hips and the difference between the 88# and 264#.

On the 264# lift your starting position is compromised, your hips are too high, leading to less work from your hamstring and posterior chain, leading to more unnecessary stress to your lower back, resulting in a rounded back when lifting it up.

At least that's the problem I see.

Little other things, you should start the back extension when the bar is right at your knee level more or less. In the 88# lift you keep doing your knee extension and don't do you back extension until the bar is hanging on your tights. Maybe it's only because it's light weitgh but isn't it a bad habit?

Also, your knees are on the way when you lower the bar, it is due to the fact that you don't drive your hips back enough, thus your body need to go around that obstacle that your knees are, which lead to more stress on your lats.

Theorically that's what I saw that was bad. please, please, please correct me if you think one of my opinion is not founded.
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:27 PM   #10
Jason M Struck
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Re: Keeping the deadlift close

it sounds like you answered your own question;

keep the hips a little lower a little longer, which will in turn keep the torso more upright, which will in turn keep the bar closer?

If it weren't for the lumbar flexion, I would say don't worry about the hips. But the rounding is pretty significant.

Perhaps some more scapular retraction and lumbar extension exercises may help.
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