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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 07-17-2007, 10:37 PM   #1
Veronica Carpenter
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Here I go again:

I'm looking for some persuasive articles/research/testimonials from gymnastic coaches that use O-lifts/squats in their strength/conditioning programs.

I have one parent that's forbidding his daughter to take part in o-lifting, deadlifting, squatting. She can do all the plyos, vaulting, etc, etc, required on the floor, vault, beam, but she's not allowed to squat because he's doesn't want her to hurt her back - even with no frickin weight! I guess back in the day when he used to wrestle his old coach said that kids shouldn't be weight training. Bah! And says that squatting is how he hurt his back. double Bah!

I need some ammo folks!
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Old 07-18-2007, 04:45 AM   #2
Steven Low
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Actually, IMO this would be a good time for an experiment....

You should try out Coach Sommer's pistol progression, and the compare it to o-lifting and other weighttraining to see which is more effective. Actually, 3 groups would be better. One would be a combination, one would be olifting + weightraining only and the third would be just pistols and other plyo stuff.

I'm actually pretty curious to see how this would turn out in a real life situation especially with girls as opposed to boys a la Coach Sommer. You have a pretty good opportunity to figure it out based on your circumstances too.

(Message edited by braindx on July 18, 2007)
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:18 AM   #3
Roger Harrell
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Few gymnastics programs use O-lifts or weighted squats. There's numerous "justifications" for this. So far, IMHO, most of these "justifications" are bogus. I did no o-lifts, and very little weight training of any kind when I was competing. Every once in a while our gymnastics team would go into the weight room to mess around (show off) a bit, but it wasn't a substantive part of our program. I would have been a substantially better gymnast if I had intelligently applied o-lifts and weighted squats to my program. For women's gymnastics the benefit is even greater as 3 of their 4 events are leg power dominant.
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:13 AM   #4
Veronica Carpenter
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Steven, can you direct me to Coach Sommers pistol progression? I only have 8 gymasts at most, so not sure how good an "experiment" I can run. I'll see what I can do with it.

Roger, I am positive this will help them, just gotta prove it to one parent in particular right now. The rest have pretty much put their trust in the coaching staff and the head coach endorses my program, so I don't have too much opposition.
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:30 AM   #5
Derek Maffett
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I don't know about Coach Sommers progressions for them, but Steven Low mentioned something like this

Pistols - pistols with a jump - pistols jumping forward - pistols jumping onto a box - pistols jumping forward onto a box.

That might not be the right order but I think it was something like that.

I am using deadlifts now to help strengthen my lower back and legs. The only time I suffered an injury from deadlifting was before I read Pavel Tsatsouline's guide in PTP on how to deadlift properly. Deadlifts actually feel kind of good when you do them right.

But you had better do them right, or that exercise may just tear you apart.

(Message edited by Benedict on July 18, 2007)
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:06 AM   #6
Veronica Carpenter
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the search function is a wonderful thing. Found it! But any other suggestions advice are still welcome. :-)

quote from Coach Sommer on pistol progression:

"Following is the progression on jumping single leg squats that I have my athletes use:

1) Learn a regular Single leg squat.

2) Add a stationary upward jump to the single leg squat.

3) Jumping single leg squat for distance.

4) Jumping single leg squat up onto a small box (approx 18-24").

5) Jumping single leg squat for distance and up onto small box.


We perform these and other leg strength drills four times a week.


Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer


(Message edited by vgcarp on July 18, 2007)
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:03 PM   #7
Derek Maffett
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Cool, I was almost right.
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:00 PM   #8
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Starting Strength has a chapter on why it's good for kids to weight train. It debunks various myths.
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:23 PM   #9
Steven Low
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I mean I would try to get them on a weight training program, but if you can't convince them you can definitely run an experiment of some sort. If your kids on weight training are consistently outperforming your pistols only or a combination of both is superior after a couple of months you have direct proof of what's the best basically that you can convince parents with.

SS does have a good chapter on that. Good call Jason.
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:25 PM   #10
George Mounce
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When it comes down to it, it is their kid. If they don't want them doing those things fine. When it comes time to pick the kids to compete, theirs might be left out due to lack of the workout.

I feel it funny they won't let their kid do an air squat, but they will let them vault or do the beam? So how do they justify their child above the ground with a lot of potential energy and a random fall can break something? I think just about everyone has seen the video of the guy vaulting where he slips and eats the horse right in the chest.

Here is a w/f safe (if you find some pain safe to watch) video of some beam mishaps I found to pass some time the other day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yuLRWI3Snw

I agree with Steven, this is an opportunity to test two different methods if you so desire.
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