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Old 03-09-2006, 01:10 PM   #31
Robert Wolf
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Tony and Sarah-

You have one month of nutrition help, on me. Shoot me an email and start compiling your food and activity log. I can tell you right now I'm going to shoot down insulin spiking and high allergenic foods. If you want to commit and make some changes I think it will help.

William-

Sometime a gut rehab program is in order. Remove the offending foods, add glutamine and loads of probiotics.
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:09 PM   #32
Steve Liberati
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I'm sorry but I don't think insulin is as bad as you are making it out to be.

If in fact you are terribly overweight, completely inactive, and all around just a very unhealthy person...yes avoiding any spikes in your insulin will help alleviate most, if not all of your bodyweight and health problems.

However...for someone who works out regularly, follows a healthy diet and treats their body like a jewish temple (like most of us do here), then insulin spikes (at certain times of the day) can be a good thing.

In fact, insulin may be the most important hormone for increase muscle strength and shifting the body from a catabolic state (muscle-loss) to an anabolic-state (muscle-gain). Not to mention insulin plays a key role in vitamin and mineral traffic.

I think the bigger issue here in not so much insulin and avoiding any rise in your blood sugar level as possible, but managing your levels properly in relation to your workout, diet and lifestyle.

Yes insulin is a MAJOR problem for any unhealthy and overweight individual.

But are we not providing acne advice for someone who we assume is not overweight and unhealthy?

Likewise, do you think a healthy and moderately fit person can effectively build muscle if they avoid insulin spikes at all costs?

Curious to hear your opinion.

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Old 03-09-2006, 02:22 PM   #33
Elliot Royce
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Has anyone considered the link between exercise and testosterone production, which is known to create oily skin and therefore exacerbate acne (teenagers suffer from the surge)? I would have thought that the long term effect of the CF philosophy would be to boost testosterone production.

How about sweating as a cause of acne? We presumably sweat more than the average person.

I also think stress is a big contributor. I've suffered from acne all my life and at 44 years old it still comes back strong when I'm stressed, or get jet lag, or drink tons of coffee.

Just some thoughts from someone who's done the antibiotics, accutane, etc.
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Old 03-09-2006, 03:07 PM   #34
Steve Liberati
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Yep I think there is a laundry list of factors that can contribute to the cause of acne. Many of which Elliot listed.

Sorry but to think insulin spikes and poor diet are the ONLY reason people get acne has to be one of the most absurd assumptions I've heard in a long time.

Thats like saying all guys who are muscular are on anabolic steroids. Not quite, there are many casual factors....one of the biggest being genetics.



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Old 03-09-2006, 04:05 PM   #35
Nikki Young
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What defines how beautiful and radiant your skin is, is your diet and how healthy you are inside, at a cellular level. Absolutely everything you eat (or dont eat) will affect the quality of your skin. Every part of your skin from the outer layer (epidermis), the inner layer (dermis), and fatty layer (subculaneous layer), depend on the quality of nutrient recieved from your blood stream..

The best line of defence for avoiding skin problems is a nutrient rich diet combined with exercise, relaxation and avoiding too much sun, sugar, cigarette smoke an chemicals.

It takes around 6months for your body to change at a cellular level. So if you change your diet suddenly because of acne conditioins (or other), it could take up to a few months for you to notice results because of your body's time to adapt. If someone with acne conditions had a poor diet for years, they could suddenly errupt in acne, for the majority of time i would say it's not a sudden change that occurs, its over a period of time which the body is exposed to the wrong environment for itself and in addition, will take a period of time to reverse.
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Old 03-09-2006, 05:21 PM   #36
Steve Liberati
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So are you implying testosterone does not play a role in causing acne and breakouts????

Lets just say hypothetically speaking, one were to follow your recommendations (nutrient rich diet combined with exercise, relaxation and avoiding too much sun, sugar, cigarette smoke an chemicals).....does that mean they are virtually guaranteed to get rid of the problem even though it may take some time?
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Old 03-09-2006, 05:50 PM   #37
Ross Hunt
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Steve [Shafley],

That's interesting info. I though I was thoroughly out of touch with my feminine side, but maybe the pink chiffon silk curtains need to go.

I was starting to think that since male adolescence, ZMA, and steroids all seem to correlate with acne of some sort that high T levels were the cause. Your reply reminds me that hormonal chemistry isn't that simple...

Insulin: I have been going strict Zone for the past couple weeks. I cut out the post-workout insulin spike a couple days into it, but during the days when I was doing (Paleo) Zone except for a post-workout spike twice a week, I noticed that the 'up' of the spike was much higher than it was when the rest of the diet was just Paleo (non-Zone). Purely anecodtal, limited range of experience, of course. Maybe, with regard to performance (as opposed to longevity) insulin sensitivity is like a bank--the more you store up, the more you can use it. I THINK Charlie Francis has suggested refraining from insulin spike except after extremely high-anaerobic volume workouts to conserve the impact of the spike.
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Old 03-10-2006, 08:00 AM   #38
Brad Hirakawa
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Warning.. anecdotal story coming:

Many generations of my family were acne free in Japan. The Hirakawa diet was largely fish, veggies, and much less rice (small portions) than some would envision a Japanese family consuming. Migrated to America and still no acne with the first generation. Second generation (still full blooded Japanese) grew up on "typical" American chow, and pop goes the face. Acne, scarring, antibiotics, Acne Statin, Derma-whatever, Clerasil, Oxy, Salicylic Acids, Momma Celestes Acne Herbs, etc. etc. Most helped a little, for a little while. Some made things much worse. On many days, you don’t even want to go outside. It sucked.

Not a placebo, case controlled, age matched, double blind study I know... but it was enough of a retrospective study to make me think twice about my dermatologists advice.

Antibiotics for acne.. jesh, what a joke. In our case, they work for a month, then the acne army gets ****ed off and retaliates. Try another stronger antibiotic, and the same thing happens, acne army comes back with something stronger. Hmm... perhaps this is why I sleep with an M14 by my bed… some sort of transference phenomena, don’t want the bad guy to overwhelm my… okay, I digress. Short term fix for a long term problem (adult acne). Accutane.. yes, that's a gang buster, but certainly reserved for severe cases.

Finally... some old wrinkled grandfather or my college roommate told me, "quit using all that sticky hair gel, exercise and break out a good sweat every day, don't pick your face, don't eat so much pizza, no more soda pop, eat more veggies, wash with a mild soap morning and night, follow with a weak benz. peroxide solution and a thin layer of moisturizer after the benz. peroxide dries." A few months later, I would have kissed that old man.

There are likely acne cases that will not respond to diet, but it certainly can't hurt to try.

Been out of the Crossfit loop for a while. Nice to be back.
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Old 03-10-2006, 01:35 PM   #39
Timothy C Dixon
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Reading the thread and felt the need to chime in here. Diet does play a role in acne but there are other external and internal items that can also cause acne. My son was experiencing very bad acne and wanted to go see a dermatologist. I refused to allow him to go until he showed me a significant individual effort to help himself. He eliminated almost all junk food. You can only expect so much from a teenager. This did have an effect on his acne. The next thing I had him do was every morning, evening before bed, and after any significant activity were he was sweating or got dirty he would come inside, run the hot water, soak a wash cloth in the hot water, put it on his face for about a minute to open his pores, wash his face with a mild soap (he used nuetrogena), rinse his face, run the cold water, soak the wash cloth in the cold water, and put it on his face to close his pores. He is now almost acne free. If he allows either one of these two things to stray he has an outbreak. He especially has issues with chocolate. One chocalate bar and he has a breakout. This is probably a little bit of an allergy and a poor diet issue.

So I believe acne is caused by several items that must be resolved in a holistic approach. We all need to clean up our diet to some kind of reasonable sustainable approach. People with oily skin may have to deal with the additional burden of focusing on extraordinary good hygeine.
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Old 03-10-2006, 02:13 PM   #40
Garrett Smith
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Brad and Timothy, I would like to thank you for your anecdotes and their significance to the self-discipline and diet aspects to this issue (heck, nearly all health issues).

Proper diet, self-care, and exercise always improve things.
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