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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 06-10-2011, 11:55 AM   #51
Pär Larsson
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Re: CrossFit's definition of health

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Originally Posted by Brian Pressman View Post
You can't get sued for having data. But, someone can subpoena the data if they think it will help their case (to sue crossfit). Maybe a reason they don't collect it? I don't know.
Solution:

CrossFit Wiki

Section: Injuries in CF gyms

All injuries must be documented with pictures, date/time and references to who treated, which hospital etc.


Also - yes, the person I quoted way earlier in thread was too subtle for my thick head. And the long walker may live longer than the CF athlete since the CF athlete drives to the gym, all other things assumed being equal.
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:10 PM   #52
Brian Pressman
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Re: Crossfit's definition of health

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Originally Posted by Mauricio Leal View Post
A -> B
B ~-> A

Absence of injury, illness, disease is a necessary but not sufficient condition for fitness/health. Fitness/health is a sufficient and necessary condition to prevent illness, injury, disease -- perhaps "dysfunction" for short. In other words, people who are uninjured, unsick, and disease free are not by definition fit. Avoidance of risky activities is generally desirable but downright ridiculous when taken to its logical extreme.
I agree people who are healthy are not necessarily fit. But then, how does that jive with Crossfit's definition of health?
All I am wondering is that if u take injury into account, is crossfit "healthy" as Mr. Glassman defines it. Driving your car, or crossing the street is not applicable. If you subtract the work capacity lost to injury(or early death, or what ever) per the crossfit definition, are you able to preform more work than say, a walker. If it is all about work preformed, don't we have to answer that to know if crossfit is healthy (by their definition)?
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:36 PM   #53
Brian Pressman
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Re: Crossfit's definition of health

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Originally Posted by James Yates View Post
But how many injuries are PREVENTED in other facets of life because of improved balance or flexibility or knowing where your maximum is? Take this the other way.... it is not about what injuries happen in the weight room, it is about your quality of life outside the weight room. I have no doubt that continuing CF will be the best way to keep up with my son as he grows and gets involved in sports, camping, biking, etc...

Don't forget, crossfit is not just mainpage wods, it is also properly scaled to individuals. My grandmother would be properly scaled to nothing but walking, toe touches and such.... she would be much less likely to fall on the steps (or even get out-of-breath on the steps) even if she risks tripping during a walk.... the walk is the workout, going up the steps represents quality-of-life.

Also, many of us younger people are pushing ourselves pretty hard. Let's face it, CF is fun because we like to compete and look at other people's stats. In all honesty, though, we should only be competing with ourselves. We bring injuries upon ourselves when we get stubborn or simply succumb to dumb accidents.

I am reminded of a quote somewhere about how you need to push yourself, but not so hard today that you aren't able to be ready for tomorrow's workout. Wether it is muscle soreness or an injury, part of today is being ready for tomorrow.

Also, we have 2 very different types of injuries in training.... real training injuries (pulling a muscle during a heavy DL) and dumb injuries (dropping a plate on your toe). Very different reasons there....

Anyways.... think more of quality of life outside the gym rather than injuries in the gym.
You make good points... and quality of life is important. I'd much rather do a crossfit wod than speed walk, but quality of life is irrelevant in crossfit's narrow definition of health. On the other hand, it still doesn't answer the question: is crossfit healthy (when subtracting work not preformed due to injury) per the definition that health=work preformed. I guess it cant be answered.
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:14 PM   #54
James Yates
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Re: Crossfit's definition of health

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Originally Posted by Brian Pressman View Post
You make good points... and quality of life is important. I'd much rather do a crossfit wod than speed walk, but quality of life is irrelevant in crossfit's narrow definition of health. On the other hand, it still doesn't answer the question: is crossfit healthy (when subtracting work not preformed due to injury) per the definition that health=work preformed. I guess it cant be answered.
Part of the CF ideal is to regularly learn and play new sports.... if I crash on my mountain bike, can I blame CF because it told me to do things outside of the weightroom?

If you hurt your shoulder doing KB swings and I hurt my shoulder hucking firewood around... you and I both have 2 weeks off, but your injury was due to CF and mine was due to keeping the house warm (or was working on firewood a substitute CF WOD for me that day?).

Well, I am just messing with you now... you would have to work very hard to quantify hard data on injuries.
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:29 PM   #55
Brian Pressman
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Re: Crossfit's definition of health

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Originally Posted by James Yates View Post
Part of the CF ideal is to regularly learn and play new sports.... if I crash on my mountain bike, can I blame CF because it told me to do things outside of the weightroom?

If you hurt your shoulder doing KB swings and I hurt my shoulder hucking firewood around... you and I both have 2 weeks off, but your injury was due to CF and mine was due to keeping the house warm (or was working on firewood a substitute CF WOD for me that day?).

Well, I am just messing with you now... you would have to work very hard to quantify hard data on injuries.
It wasn't too hard. I did a google and found the info below. The next step would be to find the average length of down time due to the injury. I'm thinking crossfit will be on the list someday. And ok, injuries attained while participating in a crossfit wod and in a crossfit facility. Keep it narrow. Anyways, here is what i found.

A variety of other sports are ranked below, with the number of injuries per 1000 hours of activity in parentheses ('Injuries in Recreational Adult Fitness Activities,' The American Journal of Sports Medicine, vol. 21 (3), pp. 461-467, 1993).

1. Alpine skiing (8)
2. Rowing machine exercise (6)
3. Treadmill walking or jogging (6)
4. Tennis (5)
5. Dancing classes (5)
6. Resistance training with weight machines (4)
7. Resistance training with free weights (4)
8. Outdoor cycling (3.5)
9. Stationary cycle exercise (2)
10. Stair climbing (2)
11. Walking (2)
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Old 06-10-2011, 03:20 PM   #56
Pär Larsson
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Re: Crossfit's definition of health

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Originally Posted by Brian Pressman View Post

1. Alpine skiing (8)
2. Rowing machine exercise (6)
3. Treadmill walking or jogging (6)
4. Tennis (5)
5. Dancing classes (5)
6. Resistance training with weight machines (4)
7. Resistance training with free weights (4)
8. Outdoor cycling (3.5)
9. Stationary cycle exercise (2)
10. Stair climbing (2)
11. Walking (2)
Amazing. Nice find. I'm very surprised about 2, 3, 5 and 9. Although the definition of injury was...?
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Old 06-10-2011, 03:31 PM   #57
Geoff Archibald
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Re: Crossfit's definition of health

Crossfit is by far the safest sport I have ever done although that's compared to climbing, skiing, mountain biking, skateboarding and even soccer. Crossfit is done in an incredibly controlled environment. There aren't any trees and rocks whipping by you at high speed. No pebbles jumping under your wheel when you least expect it. No slide tackles from behind. The biggest risks in crossfit are poor technique and overuse which are easily avoidable with a little care.
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:26 PM   #58
James Yates
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Re: Crossfit's definition of health

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Originally Posted by Pär Larsson View Post
Amazing. Nice find. I'm very surprised about 2, 3, 5 and 9.
#3-treadmill- VERY dangerous.... just search "treadmill fail" or "treadmill accident" or something similar on youtube.
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:15 PM   #59
Brian Pressman
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Re: Crossfit's definition of health

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Originally Posted by Pär Larsson View Post
Amazing. Nice find. I'm very surprised about 2, 3, 5 and 9. Although the definition of injury was...?
Of the 525 injuries and complaints reported during 60,629 hours of activity, 475 occurred as a result of sports participation for an overall rate of 7.83 per 1000 hours of participation. Seventy-six percent of these episodes caused the patient to alter or miss 1 or more activities, while 9.5% involved a physician visit. The rate for time-loss injuries was less than 2 per person per year (1.76 per 298 hours) or 5.92 per 1000 hours. Running had a higher risk of injury compared with most other individual sports. Cardiovascular fitness activities had low to medium rates, as did weight work; compet itive sports were higher. For 6 of the most commonly injured areas, the reinjury rate was about twice that reported for those with no history of previous injury.
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:26 AM   #60
Mark Ritchie
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Re: Crossfit's definition of health

This is an interesting topic, and has some potential for helping predict the types of injuries so that we can focus on ways to avoid them. So the tracking is good. If anyone sets up a tracking system be sure the categories are broad enough to get adequate data, but specific enough to narrow down types (e.g. sprains, crushing injuries, etc.).

One thing to be sure to do is to specify is that we are referring to injuries DURING the sport (e.g. CrossFit v. soccer v. treadmill), etc, not injuries in general.

This is important as I would suspect that an active CrossFitter doing it appropriately would be less likely to be injured doing OTHER sports/activities due to CrossFit's emphasis on GPP.

For the study abroad program we run here in Thailand (see www.isdsi.org WFS), we don't have enough data to back it up (yet), but students and instructors who are doing CrossFit seem to be less likely to injure themselves on our expeditions and field courses. We are backpacking in Northern Thailand, sea kayaking in the islands, etc., and it is pretty demanding. Part of our motivation to starting CrossFit Chiang Mai was to help get our students in better shape, as well as prevent injuries for students and staff. We think it is making a difference in injuries, and KNOW it is making a difference in how students (and instructors) perform.

And we need it. Over the last 12 years we've seen the general level of fitness of our American students decline, so now everyone has mandatory CrossFit for the first 6 weeks of the semester. And it helps a lot.

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