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Old 01-05-2008, 07:41 PM   #1
Allison Bishop
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Kipping Styles

I posted this in the comments but I figured I would get some more info here:

I'm wondering about different kipping styles. I just started kipping the regular way about a month ago. Two days ago I got on the bar and started going up and down. It was much easier on my hands. It still isn't exactly like Annies but it certainly wasn't back and fourth.
I noticed that when I couldn't get any more frog kips I started swinging and banged out a few more. Does that mean the swing is stronger?

Is one better or more efficient than the other?
Why are we taught the swing style?
Does body type determine what style works best?

It seems like Annies "up and down" style and OPT and AFTs backwards swing style are so much faster than the regular swing.

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Last edited by Allison Bishop : 01-05-2008 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 01-05-2008, 07:43 PM   #2
Aaron Shaffer
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Re: Kipping Styles

Good question, I've been wondering the same thing. I've got a fairly large swing on mine and can hit 25 but I'm wondering if I can improve my numbers by tweaking my form.
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Old 01-05-2008, 07:45 PM   #3
Steven Low
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Re: Kipping Styles

No, it doesn't mean the swing is stronger (although it could be). It may simply be because you are working your muscles different ways in which they are not totally fatigued yet.

Yes, some kips are more efficient/faster than others. For example, AFT's kip is superior to Annie's which is superior to Eva's in terms of quickness. I would say AFT's probably requires a bit more power generation to it though. You can view the videos in the FAQ (and AFTs on youtube in his superfast Fran I believe).

I have a different kip for muscle up than the regular one which I think works extremely well (Derek can testify). It makes the transition much easier than it usually is and it's not so violent that you have stabilization problems once making it up. For example, compare this (mine) to the mainpage one (second vid) posted a few days ago (wfs):

http://wam.umd.edu/~slow/30MUs.avi
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...erwood30MU.wmv

Anymore questions?

Last edited by Steven Low : 01-05-2008 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 01-05-2008, 07:48 PM   #4
Aaron Shaffer
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Re: Kipping Styles

Thx for the links.
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Old 01-05-2008, 07:58 PM   #5
Steven Low
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Re: Kipping Styles

Sorry, didn't quite answer everything.

Quote:
Is one better or more efficient than the other?
Why are we taught the swing style?
Does body type determine what style works best?
1 & 2. I think the arch-hollow (Eva) is easiest to learn AND the most efficient in converting the horizontal momentum into the vertical pull. The ones like Annie's and AFT's which cycle faster and fast(est) require more power to pull off and maybe slightly more in terms of technique to learn coming in with a non-sports background. In terms of loading of the shoulder girdle the latter two are more violent while the Eva is a bit more smooth which should conceivably lead to less shoulder injuries for said non-athletic people.

3. As for body type, I don't think it matters.
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:38 PM   #6
Derek Maffett
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Re: Kipping Styles

I never quite understood Annie's kip until today, actually. I was doing squats with some arm swing to them (kipping squat if you will - It actually seemed to be faster) and I noticed that the arm swing in comparison to the squatting motion was a lot like Annie's frog kick for her pull-ups. I'll have to experiment with the frog kip and see.

The AFT kip is quite a bit faster, but keep in mind that "faster" is another word for "horrendous metabolic exercise." Eva's kip might be somewhat better paced (until you need to increase the time for repetitions rather than decrease rest time).

And yes, the L-kip is much better for muscle-ups, though the fact that the transition is made incredibly easy makes it perhaps even more critical to learn and practice strict muscle-ups as well.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:49 AM   #7
Jeff Yan
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Re: Kipping Styles

I answered you on our home site, but I'll repost here to see whether others agree or disagree. (I would agree with the posts about the power generation and cycling/turnover times.)

----------
I think I've done several different kinds of kips. I started out with the big swing, picked up some sort of frog kicky thing and then yesterday during the Tabata pull ups, I noticed I was doing something different like a ripple sort of movement maybe sort of like what AFT is doing. I haven't really put enough thought into which style I should develop more since I just end up doing whatever feels natural during the middle of a WOD.

More often than not, I'm breaking up my pull up sets into subsets of less than 10. For short bursts, I go with the frog kick since it seems to get my over the bar faster and I can finish my subset and get off the bar (and start resting) faster too. On the other hand, I think I'd have a harder time using the frog kick (at least the way I do it) for a single sustained larger set. The kick can get you over the bar quickly and with little effort, but on the way down, you lose that momentum if you come down straight without swinging, and you end up using your energy slowing and controlling your descent and then reversing direction. I think the swing would be better at recycling your downward momentum. Perhaps kicking is analogous to sprinting and swinging is more for longer duration.

In summary, Hari practically eats and breathes pull ups and he clearly does a swing. I, on the other hand, try to avoid the bar like it's radioactive, and I usually do it froggy style.
----------

Btw, even though you consistently post the third comment of the day, which everybody will see, I think this is the best place to ask questions (especially if you want them answered by Steven Low ). With the HQ's comments page, we still have to sift through hundreds of postings about WOD times and dudes proposing to marry you.
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:21 AM   #8
Steven Low
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Re: Kipping Styles

Yeah, I don't think most of the people on the forums read the comments. I usually don't unless it's something like muscle ups in which everyone always has some questions about subbing or in like CFT about how to warmup to the lifts.

BTW, I agree Jeff.
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Old 01-06-2008, 11:33 AM   #9
David Aguasca
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Re: Kipping Styles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Yan View Post
Btw, even though you consistently post the third comment of the day, which everybody will see, I think this is the best place to ask questions (especially if you want them answered by Steven Low ). With the HQ's comments page, we still have to sift through hundreds of postings about WOD times and dudes proposing to marry you.
that last sentence kills me


as far as kipping goes, the swing style just makes a lot more sense to me. plus, i feel that since it allows you to relax a little more at the bottom (in the arched position) you might be able to crank out a few more PUs that way. plus it's an active stretch for the shoulder girdle...and i know i could use more of that flexibility.

Last edited by David Aguasca : 01-06-2008 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 01-06-2008, 04:46 PM   #10
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: Kipping Styles

I believe that taller athletes can get more leverage out a long swing than shorter athletes like Annie. But regardless of height, the longer swing is more powerful but slower. People with relatively weak pulling strength whose arms tire quickly or are having trouble getting the chin all the way up to the bar can get more elevation and power out of their lower body by using a bigger backswing style.
http://crossfitsedona.typepad.com/Im...gBackSwing.jpg

BarMuscleUp.mov
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