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Old 04-09-2008, 11:41 AM   #101
Andrew H. Meador
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Re: more Louie Simmons: Olympic lifts not good for sports

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Originally Posted by Phillip Garrisonq View Post
The point that most people make is, Pauls power, compared to his strength was low. With a squat of 1,000 he should have been able to clean nearly 600.Hossein by comparison Squats around 700, but cleans 560. In terms of power to strength, Hossein is better. No one cares what you squat, if you can't get the most weight over your head.
Reza could back squat more than that in the "powerlifting style". He may have done 700 in the deep "olympic style" back squat, but he definitely does over 600 in the front squat - there's a youtube video of him doing easy front squat doubles over 600. As for Anderson, it was a different era, with different equipment, different technique, and Paul was even chunkier than Reza. That chunkiness was hard to get up and down. Besides, at the time Anderson was lifting, he didn't have quite the same level of competition to lift his performances. Anderson was a strong and powerful dude, no doubt about it, and so is Reza.
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:25 PM   #102
Tim Luby
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Re: more Louie Simmons: Olympic lifts not good for sports

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Originally Posted by Andrew H. Meador View Post
Reza could back squat more than that in the "powerlifting style". He may have done 700 in the deep "olympic style" back squat, but he definitely does over 600 in the front squat - there's a youtube video of him doing easy front squat doubles over 600. As for Anderson, it was a different era, with different equipment, different technique, and Paul was even chunkier than Reza. That chunkiness was hard to get up and down. Besides, at the time Anderson was lifting, he didn't have quite the same level of competition to lift his performances. Anderson was a strong and powerful dude, no doubt about it, and so is Reza.
Yeah, Reza would fly up with 700# on his back. It would not surprise me at all if he back squatted 1000#

Last edited by Tim Luby : 04-09-2008 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 04-09-2008, 01:33 PM   #103
Gant Grimes
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Re: more Louie Simmons: Olympic lifts not good for sports

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Which is why I find his statement contradicting in nature. He says he borrowed a page from the O-lifters book, about force development, but then criticizes that same book, about the 1st pull, being bad for sports, force development.
Why is that contradictory? Like Brandon said, it's one stinking page. Hitler actually did some things pretty well. The rest...not so much.

What's your personal interest in this, Phillip? You continually provide exceptions to the suggestion that USAW has underperformed on the world stage because we aren't strong enough. Do you have something against Louie, or are you defending USAW? Some context would help me to understand your perspective better.
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Old 04-09-2008, 02:05 PM   #104
Phillip Garrison
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Re: more Louie Simmons: Olympic lifts not good for sports

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Originally Posted by Andrew H. Meador View Post
Reza could back squat more than that in the "powerlifting style". He may have done 700 in the deep "olympic style" back squat, but he definitely does over 600 in the front squat - there's a youtube video of him doing easy front squat doubles over 600. As for Anderson, it was a different era, with different equipment, different technique, and Paul was even chunkier than Reza. That chunkiness was hard to get up and down. Besides, at the time Anderson was lifting, he didn't have quite the same level of competition to lift his performances. Anderson was a strong and powerful dude, no doubt about it, and so is Reza.
I agree, you're right, I forgot about that video.
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Old 04-09-2008, 02:06 PM   #105
Phillip Garrison
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Re: more Louie Simmons: Olympic lifts not good for sports

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Why is that contradictory? Like Brandon said, it's one stinking page. Hitler actually did some things pretty well. The rest...not so much.

What's your personal interest in this, Phillip? You continually provide exceptions to the suggestion that USAW has underperformed on the world stage because we aren't strong enough. Do you have something against Louie, or are you defending USAW? Some context would help me to understand your perspective better.
I have nothing against Louie, and I fully agree that USAW has underperformed. But I think it's alot more complicated than "were not strong enough"
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:27 PM   #106
Joey Powell
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Re: more Louie Simmons: Olympic lifts not good for sports

then by all means, please explain it.

I got nothing against the organization, nor its athletes, but I keep seeing examples of people that are stronger than them not lift as much. Answer this: Are the athletes on the winner's stands stronger than our guys across the board.

In other words take two guys with comparibly effective technique, mental toughness etc., yet one is 10% stronger, which one would you put your money on.

Now if you want to argue that Weightlifting VS powerlifting challenges and by default develops more of the 10 attributes of fitness, then I would agree.
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Old 04-10-2008, 05:22 PM   #107
Phillip Garrison
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Re: more Louie Simmons: Olympic lifts not good for sports

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then by all means, please explain it.

I got nothing against the organization, nor its athletes, but I keep seeing examples of people that are stronger than them not lift as much. Answer this: Are the athletes on the winner's stands stronger than our guys across the board.

In other words take two guys with comparibly effective technique, mental toughness etc., yet one is 10% stronger, which one would you put your money on.

Now if you want to argue that Weightlifting VS powerlifting challenges and by default develops more of the 10 attributes of fitness, then I would agree.

Strength has something to do with it. But I think the other aspect is the quality of athletes/coaches/facilities for the US compared to other countries. In countries like Iran, Turkey, Bulgaria, Russia, etc, the best power/strength athletes are developed from early on into WL. Here, most of our top athletes who have lots of power/strength, speed, are more often involved in Football, Baseball, and Basketball. If Hossein had been born here in the US, he most likely would be a star O Lineman making almost a million a year in the NFL instead of a Gold Medal lifter. By comparison, if many of our start team sport athletes had been trained since age 11,12 to be lifters, we would probably have more World/Olympic Champions.
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:17 PM   #108
Jake Oleander
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Re: more Louie Simmons: Olympic lifts not good for sports

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Originally Posted by Phillip Garrisonq View Post
Strength has something to do with it. But I think the other aspect is the quality of athletes/coaches/facilities for the US compared to other countries. In countries like Iran, Turkey, Bulgaria, Russia, etc, the best power/strength athletes are developed from early on into WL. Here, most of our top athletes who have lots of power/strength, speed, are more often involved in Football, Baseball, and Basketball. If Hossein had been born here in the US, he most likely would be a star O Lineman making almost a million a year in the NFL instead of a Gold Medal lifter. By comparison, if many of our start team sport athletes had been trained since age 11,12 to be lifters, we would probably have more World/Olympic Champions.
I agree with everything here, except for the fact that you seem to imply that the 'almost a million a year' reza would be making in the NFL is a big deal compared to what he makes in Iran as THE national sports hero. The reason the USA is not good at weightlifting is almost completely cultural.
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Old 04-10-2008, 07:38 PM   #109
Phillip Garrison
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Re: more Louie Simmons: Olympic lifts not good for sports

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I agree with everything here, except for the fact that you seem to imply that the 'almost a million a year' reza would be making in the NFL is a big deal compared to what he makes in Iran as THE national sports hero. The reason the USA is not good at weightlifting is almost completely cultural.
Thats my point. Weightlifting is very very big in Iran, and their athletes are idolized. In the US, the money, and accolades are in Football, Baseball, and Basketball. Which is why I say, if he were born in the US, he'd be a probowler. By comparison if Brian Urlacher had been born in Bulgaria, he'd probably be a top WL'r today.
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Old 04-18-2008, 09:21 AM   #110
Hugh O'Beirne
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Re: more Louie Simmons: Olympic lifts not good for sports

It seems to me that some of the holds in BJJ and Wrestling would benefit from the first pull in the Oly lifts. Particularly by learning the interchange between controlled movement to explosive movement.
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