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Old 11-29-2007, 06:37 PM   #11
James Besenyei
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

The original question has been answered. MMA is popular right now, traditional martial arts are still popular & productive, and Krav Maga is popular b/c people are seeking a more viable/physically immediate training method.

Now the question has turned to what amounts to self defense.

Self defense is whatever makes you feel more comfortable considering your surroundings. If one trains in a martial art, feels more confident, becomes more aware of his surroundings, and gets in some semblance of "shape" due to his training, then he has improved his ability to defend himself or to run away/spot a bad situation.

If one trains to use a firearm correctly, he feels more confident, becomes more aware of his surroundings, and understands that he has an immense responsibility because that great equalizer (a handgun) is concealed from everyone else and can wreak havoc if unleashed.

IF one trains in MMA (the most effective techniques of the collective called "martial arts" tested in a sporting environment) then he has gained most of the advantages of the above methods of self awareness/self defense plus he is more likely than not a competitive individual who doesn't like losing (an advantage that cannot be overlooked in any self defense situation...yes it can be both detrimental and advantageous).

The point being: dependent upon one's goals and environment, martial arts, a handgun, or MMA may be viable options that will increase one's ability to defend himself or run away.
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:56 PM   #12
Jonathan Rich
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

For the most part I agree with Becca, that MMA is for sport. I do believe that MMA training is probably the most effective "sport" for self defense. Besides the lack of real world practicality, the weakest part of most "traditional" arts is the lack of sparring. Performing "moves" against a resisting opponent in real time makes a huge difference. Not to mention just the fact of knowing what it feels like to get hit and not immediately panic.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:31 PM   #13
Isaac Mann-Silverman
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Functional MA? Kajukenbo. I'm surprised more people in the Crossfit community aren't experienced in the style or don't mention it. From what I've gathered in my training, it is an excellent way to a good street style.
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:00 AM   #14
Celio Silva
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Becca Borawski View Post
No one should be studying MMA thinking they're learning self-defense. MMA is a sport. ...
"MMA is a sport..." that teachs one how to fight, which is a HUGE element of self-defense. Thus, by learning MMA, one is, indeed, learning self-defense. Now, Is that all there is to it? Of course not, but to dismiss such training as inappropriate for those who seek to learn self-defense is not right.

"Self-defense is one of the biggest myths, and biggest marketing ploys, of the martial arts world. At best, it's a disservice to the people seeking to learn actual self-defense, at worst it's irresponsible and dangerous."

While there is something to be said about that, such statement is too broad & all encompassing. While some schools & disciplines most definately do not teach a style that trains one in self-defense, others most definately do.

Personally, I am sure glad that I possesed thai boxing & BJJ skills while growing up in the streets of Rio.

I mean, what else is more "... effective... simple, memorable, and executable" than a RNC...


Shoo, even at a kids class at Kovars little practioners are instructed to avoid strangers when lost and approach a mother w/ children, which is exactly what my wife and I have taught our little girl. What better self-defense can you teach a kid who can yet protect him/herself physically?! This is self-defense at its best...

There is much, MUCH value to Martial Arts when it comes to self-defense...
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:59 AM   #15
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offe...aulttable.html

wfs

There are more recorded assaults using blunt objects than body parts in the USA.
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Old 11-30-2007, 07:17 AM   #16
Becca Borawski
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

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Originally Posted by David Bott View Post
I don't think alot of Jiu Jitsu schools "hack up bamboo with katanas"...
I've been to more than one that did -- and participated in it as well, in fact! I'm not saying it's not fun or a great physical activity, but that it's not teaching people self-defense.

Quote:
Plus alot of the "slow stilted" training is done because a: people are still learning it and would be insane to throw themselves at it 100% and b: you will quite likely get hurt. Imagine if an instructor said "Right today we are going to learn this throw here.... here it is now go at each other 100%." Would you put something on someone you are still learning 'full-on'? Worse yet would you care to receive it from someone you know is only learning the technique???
I never stated that any such thing would be appropriate. It would obviously be ludicrous to have a brand new student do 100% right out of the gate. Things should be taught in a progression. That doesn't mean that live training should not be part of a program, and is in fact essential for making sure someone knows how to apply something - be it for sport or self-defense.

Training things at slow speed with a cooperative training partner will indeed help you learn how to navigate the many moves of a certain technique. It's a great way to start to learn the move -- that's how Muay Thai, jiu-jitsu, boxing, etc are taught as well. But at some point, the technique has to be trained at real speed with an unpredictable opponent. For it to be useful to those law enforcement and others that you describe, the first time you try a technique in that fast and unpredictable manner can't be on the street.

Quote:
And very few "traditional" (I don't like that term as every martial art has changed over time) schools do much sparring, simply because sparring is not self-defense. Sparring is fighting, Jiu Jitsu is fight ending.
First off, you can spar with the scenario of one person attacking another.

Secondly, shouldn't fight ending be trained in a live fashion? Call it sparring, call it "alive," call it whatever you want -- if you don't train in that way, you have no clue if you can apply what you do.
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Old 11-30-2007, 07:20 AM   #17
Becca Borawski
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott View Post
I live in Australia and purchasing a handgun or mace is simply not an option. Same with butterfly/flick knives, extendible batons, nunchaku, tonfa, heck even those Kubotan keyring thingies are illegal here!
The same is true of most of those things in California -- I carry multiple small knives and a couple flashlights on me at all times. A flashlight can be a pretty powerful tool and weapon. You can strike someone, blind someone, etc.

You can also get Kubotans that are functional pens and other items like that, so you can fudge the illegality a little bit.
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Old 11-30-2007, 07:25 AM   #18
Becca Borawski
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celio Silva View Post
"MMA is a sport..." that teachs one how to fight, which is a HUGE element of self-defense. Thus, by learning MMA, one is, indeed, learning self-defense. Now, Is that all there is to it? Of course not, but to dismiss such training as inappropriate for those who seek to learn self-defense is not right.
I'm not ever going to thai kick somebody in a self-defense situation. For most people, and women especially that would be unrealistic and inappropriate. I tried it once when I was drunk and ****ed at somebody in Vegas and let me tell you -- it doesn't work so well in high heels.

And while that's funny - it gets to the point that it's not terribly realistic. Nor is it terribly realistic to think I'm going to armbar or RNC a guy trying to rape me. While that knowledge might help me at some point in my life, it shouldn't be what I'm relying on for self defense.

Quote:
Shoo, even at a kids class at Kovars little practioners are instructed to avoid strangers when lost and approach a mother w/ children, which is exactly what my wife and I have taught our little girl. What better self-defense can you teach a kid who can yet protect him/herself physically?! This is self-defense at its best...
Agreed - that's great knowledge for kids to have!
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Old 11-30-2007, 07:42 AM   #19
James Forbes
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Well stated becca!
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:00 AM   #20
Celio Silva
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Respect Becca... you're always positive and open to constructive discussions... thanx for all your input...

Jason, thanx for posting that graphic. Very interesting. It's interesting that fist-fights are more predominant than firearms AND knives both in the entire country as a whole AND in every region, w/ the exception of firearms in the south. It reflects exactly how i feel towards confrontation. And it makes perfect sense that the predominant confrontation features objects. People for the most part are gonna grab something/have something to hit you with. And that's why i feel that knowing how to fight is crucial to self-defense. You can fight a fist-fight or even someone w/ a bat, but if you find yourself at gun point or threatened to be sliced, there is not much that you can do. Self-defense than may come down to negotiation/communication skills, running/parkour skills, and innumerous other elements that may be out of your control, but as the graph demonstrates, the odds favor a fist-fight or the use of an object, in which case knowing how to fight will go a looonnng way towards protecting oneself.
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