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Old 06-01-2007, 01:15 PM   #41
Bill Russell
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David,

That's a funny story about your KF guy.

I agree with Skip on not wanting to go to the ground. Maybe if I was guaranteed that I only had a single opponent, but that guarantee would not likely exist. I have very little chance defending against his buddy kicking in the side of my head.

Of course I train to grapple in case I would get taken down, but I'd be avoiding it at all costs if my life was in danger.

In Hapkido we train to defend in all 4 ranges. Of course each student tends to have a favorite, but we give equal attention to all ranges-kicking, striking, clinch and ground.

I have taken my share of BJJ classes and I really like the art. I'm hoping to get a local instructor to teach classes at our new CF facility.
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Old 06-01-2007, 01:24 PM   #42
Skip Chase
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David, It doesn't seem like you want to consider the merits of some of the comments.

Your question, "What if the eye gouge doesn't inflict enough or any damage." is an example. We have all experienced a 'slight' accidental poke in the eye. What is the reaction of the central nervous system. A sudden gasp or shout and both hands go to the eyes in a bent over position. That is the reaction to the least pressure of an accidental poke. Reality. Now, actually drive 1 little finger 1/16th of an inch into the pupil. Now, drive the index finger into the inside corner and push slightly diagonally toward the opposite side of the eye socket. Most people will 'cringe' just having the thought. Boxers have lost fights after receiving an accidental 'thumb' to the eye. That's a gloved thumb. I am attacked, on my back, with an attacker, who wants to harm or kill me, I will find the eye with one of my hands. I will be on my feet in less than 5 seconds. He is unable to do anything other than curl up in a fetal position with both hands over his eyes and scream. I am heading home to my lovely wife.

Yes, CKM gives me those tools. In a street attack, the attacker is the enemy.

I am not saying CKM and KM and other of the reality based arts are the best. Just the best regarding live combat and street attacks against ANY attacker.

David, You seem to just want to argue, without reasoning. It's ok. I'll go away now.

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Old 06-01-2007, 01:33 PM   #43
James Besenyei
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Street fighting = do whatever you have to do to win and get the heck out of there; if a guy is bigger and stronger he almost always has the immediate upper hand; if a guy is really quick or very, very aggressive he might be able to over run a bigger, stronger opponent; I've seen big guys destroy people, I've seen quick guys destroy big guys, I've seen a guy you never thought would have done anything in a fight pick up a pool cue and beat the snot out of two guys b/c they were harassing his girl, and I've seen a girl bust a bottle over some jerks head and send him to the hospital (she was convicted of a felony); all of these things (and some more) happened at a punch palace I used to work at, where one is most likely to get into a "street fight". I don't know that you can train for every eventuality, nor can you ask a guy his credentials before you fight "do you prefer grappling?", "can we box today I'm really trained up?"; the most important thing to have is awareness, that can be learned from martial arts of all styles, and it is the most important thing one can learn to become more efficient at self defense; if at all possible I think Blauer's ideas are really interesting, but getting to training seminars and using that really cool looking equipment on a regular basis would be difficult. Stay strong, stay aware, work on grip strength, don't be too full of pride to run away, look out for weapons (one that can be used against you, or one you can use in a worst case scenario), and above all else stay aware, stay aware, stay aware.
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:27 PM   #44
Charlie Jackson
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Now, actually drive 1 little finger 1/16th of an inch into the pupil. Now, drive the index finger into the inside corner and push slightly diagonally toward the opposite side of the eye socket.

Someone who weights 100 lbs more than you, loaded on crack, is tossing punches at your head, their head and body is moving all over the place. Do you honestly think you're going to land a finger in their eye socket? most likely you'll poke them in the forehead and jam your finger. If you're banking on a eye poke to save your life, you're taking a long shot.
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:55 PM   #45
Skip Chase
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Charlie,
That is assuming the 100# bottom feeder gets me to the floor.

Perhaps it is a long shot for you. I am not aware of your experience with combatives. You might see if there is a CKM or KM instructor close by or a Blauer seminar. You will find them very educational regarding REALIY BASED training.

I promise this time. I won't come back to this thread again. I can observe it is for experts only, of which, I am not one of those.:giveup:
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Old 06-01-2007, 06:55 PM   #46
Bill Russell
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Charlie,

Skip did not say eye poke, he said eye gouge. There is a big difference.

I'll bet you my car that if you get someone all cracked up who is lucky enough to land on top of someone with Skip's experience, the guy on top is going to never forget the experience. Maybe it's not an eye gouge, maybe it's an ear torn off, or a nostril ripped out, or half the skin torn from his face. Being trained to save your life is quite different than winning a bout in the cage. I'm not saying one is 'better' that the other, just that they both deserve their due respect.

There are no rules in a street fight, and no points for style. What do the soldiers say? coming in seconds means you die, something like that.
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Old 06-02-2007, 05:00 AM   #47
Beau Bryant
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I think this has somehow turned into an "eye gouge will work or it won't argument". All I can say is if you are relying on an eye gouge to get you off the ground in 5 seconds against someone who is skilled on the ground I hope the first attempt is successful. Just have a backup plan in the event it does not have the desired effect. Good luck
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Old 06-02-2007, 07:53 AM   #48
Rick West
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I see another issue not touched upon is infections/diseases? I work in a jail, many if not most have 1 or more types of crud. Like a Gilla Monster/ Komodo Dragon they have very nasty teeth. Getting bit by one of these people could have permanant consequences. I don't think in terms of "winning" the fight, I want to survive the fight to come home to my life. Which is what I had before the assault.They will not allow a "Homeboy" to take a beating, they will jump in and they will laugh about it later when they tell the stories about stomping somebody. I see it everyday. JMHO

Ricisan
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Old 06-02-2007, 07:56 AM   #49
Brad Davis
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I've been analyzing my own thoughts while reading this thread.

I am all for self defense, weapons for law-abiding citizens, etc., but I've made it the last 22 years (36 now) without a physical confrontation of any kind. I'm not a LEO, bodyguard, soldier, bounty hunter, mercenary, etc. and I don't go looking for trouble. Been very lucky also, I suppose! I think this probably sums it up for most people.

I think this is the root of my disinterest (not disdain) in "real fight" martial arts. MMA is a sport and it's very entertaining. That's about the extent of physical combat in most US citizens' worlds--at least for everybody I know.

Anyway, if anyone needs these skills OR is simply interested in them for whatever reason, I think it's great that these schools exist.

I wish the best of luck in your training! Hopefully you'll never need it.
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:02 AM   #50
Jim Glover
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"Monkey grabs forbidden fruit."

Bwahahahaha

That is some funny stuff.

And Brad has just posted the best post on this whole thread.

Awareness of your surroundings and knowing that a tactical retreat is the best option when available.

Don't let your pride get into a situation that could be avoided. So some punk thinks he's mroe of man than you because you didn't fight him and all his buddies outside the mall or in the bar. But you are going home with all your regular attachments and no extra holes.

And as far as the whole style versus style thing, remember one simple phrase.

It's not the style it's the fighter.

(Message edited by Jim_Glover on June 02, 2007)
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