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Old 08-12-2013, 03:16 PM   #11
Louis Day
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Re: Is the Zone a good idea?

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Originally Posted by Jeff Enge View Post
I know who Michael Andrew is, and I won't go into my opinion on that except that I'll ask you to remember that he is basically a guinea pig for the that kind of training and also a genetic freak with his size at 14 years old.

What I mean about where you are in your career is more are you a high schooler, college swimmer, Master's swimmer? Sectionals level, Junior Nationals, Nationals?

How old you are especially will help determine your diet as well as how much recovery you need. Feeling tired right after a workout is not a great indicator of whether you are overtraining/undereating or not, rather the symptoms tend to be pretty rapid onset.
I couldn't agree more, but I've seen my times improve as I've used that training method.

I'm a high schooler. I do have sectional times, but the thing is I was never serious about siwmming until 4-5 months back. It was more of a thing which I did just for the exercise rather than to actually compete and be the best I can be at it. Now I have insane goals that I want to accomplish in the sport of swimming, and I'm dropping lots of time.

I know it sounds ridiculous but from the people I've talked to and my experiences I think overtaining is a mental thing. That's the reason I dislike that concept, because I find it an excuse and a mental barrier that you can create. And I find the only way to break out of plateaus is to mentally differentiate from these limits you've set for yourselves. So I abandon the concept of overtraining completely. Not too worried about that, I get plenty of rest and besides these few endeavors live a pretty quiet and relaxed live. Also if I feel as if my body can't handle any more and I'm having a hard time doing anything, I won't hesitate to take a week off.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:57 PM   #12
Todd Neal
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Re: Is the Zone a good idea?

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I think what I will do is go strict Zone for 1-2 months and closely monitor my times along with any workout changes and determine if the Zone truly is helping me.
Do that. We all respond differently to food and exercise, so what works for me may not work for you. Even if other people suggest modifications, you'll be better off making your own assertions about what needs to be modified and by how much.
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:42 PM   #13
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: Is the Zone a good idea?

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Louis don't listen to anyone who says The Zone is "fad diet" or a "low-carb, low-calorie" diet. They obviously know virtually nothing about zone diet principles, which do not in any way suggest a person eat low carb or low calorie--quite the opposite, in fact, since zone principles suggest 40% of your total calories come from carbs.

The Crossfit Level 1 materials suggest that the zone diet principles are very useful in helping us gauge how much to eat. That holds true both for the proportions of carbs, protein, and fat and in regard to the total amount of food to eat. Crossfit has its own basic principle of what type of foods to eat--which is quite close to paleo although not exact. "Eat vegetables, especially leafy greens, lean meat, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch, and no added sugar." That is paraphrased, but essentially sets forth the Crossfit prescription for what to eat.

I am essentially a paleo plus dairy eater. I do not follow zone principles close enough, but do at times. And when I do I notice a difference in terms of feeling better. Since you feel good eating paleo, I suggest you eat paleo but also work in zone principles on how much carbs, protein, and fat to eat--the principles of both diets in this regard are consistent.
By the guidelines to take in 45-55% of daily calories from carbohydrates, this would be considered low carb. It is a fad diet. Guy writes a book and has no evidence to back up his claims. Sounds like profit to me.....
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:43 PM   #14
Steven Wingo
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Re: Is the Zone a good idea?

On what sources do you rely in arguing that 45-55% of calories should be from carbohydrates?

There is no good evidence to suggest that is correct. In fact, the advice originally advocated by Ancel Keys to eat a high carb diet--and subsequently adopted by the government, food companies, and the nutrition industry--has been a complete and total disaster in practice.
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:57 PM   #15
Todd Neal
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Re: Is the Zone a good idea?

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It is a fad diet.
This is a question for everyone: How will we know when a fad diet should become the standard diet?
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:24 PM   #16
Steve Liberati
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Re: Is the Zone a good idea?

Your best bet is to experiment with the Zone Diet by following it to the T for at least 2 months to see how it works for you. Everyone will have a different experience doing Zone. I've been following it loosely for the last 7 years and find it works great for me.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:38 PM   #17
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: Is the Zone a good idea?

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Originally Posted by Steven Wingo View Post
On what sources do you rely in arguing that 45-55% of calories should be from carbohydrates?

There is no good evidence to suggest that is correct. In fact, the advice originally advocated by Ancel Keys to eat a high carb diet--and subsequently adopted by the government, food companies, and the nutrition industry--has been a complete and total disaster in practice.
Other than the ACSM and numerous other organizations using this as their guideline...
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:38 PM   #18
Michael Dries
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Re: Is the Zone a good idea?

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Originally Posted by Steven Wingo View Post
On what sources do you rely in arguing that 45-55% of calories should be from carbohydrates?

There is no good evidence to suggest that is correct. In fact, the advice originally advocated by Ancel Keys to eat a high carb diet--and subsequently adopted by the government, food companies, and the nutrition industry--has been a complete and total disaster in practice.
For the record a high carb diet full of refined sugar, food processing byproducts and artificial chemicals is not the same as a high carb diet full of starchy tubers, vegetables, fruits and even certain grains.

Also a diet high in carbs for a couch surfer is inappropriate, whereas it would be beneficial to a strength or endurance athlete. Know your context, know your target audience, know the specifics.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:52 PM   #19
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: Is the Zone a good idea?

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This is a question for everyone: How will we know when a fad diet should become the standard diet?
One I would say has some clinical evidence and research behing it coupled with peer reviewed publishing. For instance, the Medditerranian diet fits this criteria and differs from the party line recommendation.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:56 PM   #20
Paulo Santos
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Re: Is the Zone a good idea?

The Paleo and Zone Diets, are exactly that, diets. They are great for loosing weight, but not ideal for performance. I wouldn't exactly call them fad diets or bad in any way if you want to lose weight. I see nothing wrong with getting rid of all that processed crap that so many people eat nowadays. Whether all the claims are bull**** or not, who cares. These diets work as weight loss diets.

These diets aren't performance diets. Sure, you can tweak them and add carbs to aid you in your training, but then you aren't really doing them any longer.

I have tried many of these diets and IMHO, the best thing to do is start with a solid, well balanced base plan and then adjust according to your needs. Carbs aren't the enemy. Most Americans that are fat aren't fat because they eat carbs. They are fat because they eat like a fat kid.

For me, I try to eat as healthy as I can for most of the day (Paleoish), but post workout, I will feed my body proteins and carbs. That's the one thing that I've learned from the "fad diets" that I've tried before (carb backloading and renegade diet). That works for me and I'm happy with it. A lot of this **** is just common sense.
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