CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-22-2012, 08:52 PM   #51
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: What is your #1 strength training question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt Konodi View Post
I've heard you should only deadlift heavy once a week, or maybe even once every two weeks if you're doing a lot. My deadlift is really low and I want to get it up. I just started a 12 week squat cycle which I do on Monday and Friday. I plan on doing deadlifts on Wednesday, what type of rep scheme would you suggest in order for me to get good gains in my deadlift?
If you are going to do a program like that I would wave my deadlifts in terms of intensity and reps for 3 weeks. So, for the 1st week I would do a hard set of 10. The 2nd week a hard set of 5 and the 3rd week work up to a 1RM then start over with a slightly higher load for 10 reps ad so on.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 09:06 PM   #52
Robert Fabsik
Member Robert Fabsik is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kildeer  IL
Posts: 2,233
Re: What is your #1 strength training question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bernard View Post
For max effort work with beginners, would you recommend working up to a 1RM or something like a 3-5RM? Would the recommendation be different if the beginner was looking to bulk up and not necessarily maintain weight? I feel that the 3-5RM range would allow for both strength and size development compared to just strength with a 1RM, and as such be better, but I'm not sure.
For a complete newby, no experience whatever, I would use the first several sessions to work form on the basic movements to be used on ME day--squat, deadlift, box squats and even GM's. And I'd continue this form training on DE day. Once they have the moves down pretty well, I'd start having them work up to heavy singles keeping something in the tank, shooting for 3-4 heavy singles and definitely stopping if any major form breaks down. Once they understand how to grind weights I'd have them push themselves further. This will occur at different rates for different folks.

If they haven't done WS, but have experience, I'd do a few sessions of them working heavy singles, see how they grind and then let them have at it.

If you feel more comfortable you can have them work 3's and 5's in the rotation at first, but it is not essential.

I used to be in the camp that a 5RM is safer than a 1RM. I think both have their advantages and disadvantages. On a 5RM, sometimes those last reps might be uglier than a controlled but failed 1RM. I also wonder that in a 5RM some of the static muscles might be more fatigued setting up some risk for injury, whereas in a 1RM your static/support muscles might be fine and its the big movers that can't get the job done. In one case you tweak something that sticks around for a while, in the other case you've got a pull/strain that might clear up in a week or so (this is just conjecture). Seems to me, and this might be personality, that I can lock things up well for one rep, but if I'm working really hard it can be tough in a 5 repper.

In regards to 3-5RM vs 1RM for size and strength, WS separates this by using ME 1RM work to build strength and then uses assistance work to build size. A lot of other programs use 5 to build both, but then you don't get the heavier load experience. Don't forget in WS its ok to use 5's for assistance work.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 09:14 PM   #53
Clayton Mowat
Member Clayton Mowat is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Grande Prairie  AB Canada
Posts: 10
Re: What is your #1 strength training question?

Chris, I'm terribly weak at pressing any pressing. I'm 6'1" 200lbs. My bench is only 200, my strict press is 135-145. I can't do HSPU's very good. But I have good shoulder stability my OH squat 250. What can I do to increase my presses. What kinda of Rep scheme, % ect..?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 11:09 PM   #54
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: What is your #1 strength training question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael R. Miller View Post
Oh where to begin. So with regards to beginners you advocate just starting right out with westside and part of me agrees with your logic "why start out with an inferior program only to move to it anyways" but as a beginner how can you identify your weaknesses after day 1 or after a couple of weeks or do you have tell tale signs that you know this is going to be a problem since you have been around athletes that long? I mean a good rule is that most people are posterior deficient even if you have 400-500 pull your weakness is still probably in the posterior chain but beyond that and not enough tricep work for lockouts on the overhead press for someone in CrossFit is usually my best guess.
Michael,

As I have mentioned before, Westside has the unique ability to automatically address weaknesses when compared to other systems. This is because of its conjugate variety. Most strength programs for beginners simply have them squat, bench press, deadlift, do some sort of row, and a shoulder press. The problem is if, for example, the lifter has a relative weakness of their lower back when squatting no matter how much they squat that same lower back issue will remain a relative weakness. With Westside these problems are automatically addressed because of the variety of ME and accessory movements. With Westside you don't ME squat every week. One week you ME box squat, the next you might do a deadlift variation, the following week a good morning (GM) variation, and 4th week yet another box squat variation. In our example the GMs and deads place a large emphasis on lower back strength thus the relative weakness is being prioritized 2 out of 4 weeks. In addition, still other exercises are used for lower body accessory work and likely one or more address the lower back. Do you see how this works?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 11:11 PM   #55
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: What is your #1 strength training question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Witt View Post
my stance is just outside my shoulders toes slightly pointed out and low bar squat depth is pretty good below parrallel ... when the weight is relatively light i have no problem ... do you think it is a weakness in my core? or a bad habit i have to break? i have been getting about 6 inches away from a wall and air squatting making sure to keep my chest upright
I think you can address the issue by forcing yourself not to break form. When you do you have gone too heavy. Training like this will initially decrease the loads you use, but you will quickly get back to where you were and then some.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 11:13 PM   #56
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: What is your #1 strength training question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Derksen View Post
Maybe not strength training per say, but related.

At what point does it become necessary to gain weight? Lets say you weigh an alright amount but are pretty lean already, your lifts are decent, but they've been stalled for quite some time and you tend to have up and down weeks but overall progress is slow or non existent.

I guess another way of phrasing it, is gaining weight necessary to getting stronger?
At some point yes. Very simply stated demonstrable force is a combination of nervous system optimization and force production potential of the muscle cells. The only way to increase said potential is through myofibrillar hypertrophy - making your muscles bigger. So, once you tap out your nervous system the only way to progress is to add some lean muscle mass.

With that said, you can get pretty darn strong at a given body weight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 11:15 PM   #57
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: What is your #1 strength training question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bernard View Post
For max effort work with beginners, would you recommend working up to a 1RM or something like a 3-5RM? Would the recommendation be different if the beginner was looking to bulk up and not necessarily maintain weight? I feel that the 3-5RM range would allow for both strength and size development compared to just strength with a 1RM, and as such be better, but I'm not sure.
I would make sure proper technique is learned before doing 1RM attempts.

Use reps with accessory work for size. In other words, make your accessory work hypertrophy specific and you will get bigger assuming you are eating enough.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 11:16 PM   #58
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: What is your #1 strength training question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton Mowat View Post
Chris, I'm terribly weak at pressing any pressing. I'm 6'1" 200lbs. My bench is only 200, my strict press is 135-145. I can't do HSPU's very good. But I have good shoulder stability my OH squat 250. What can I do to increase my presses. What kinda of Rep scheme, % ect..?
Tell me your exact training regimen - all of it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 01:20 AM   #59
Ben Norris
Member Ben Norris is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sunshine Coast  QLD Australia
Posts: 727
Re: What is your #1 strength training question?

Chris a couple of questions

Having read alot of westside books/articals I see Louie refer to high rep tendon strengthening reps of 100+

Take a tricep pushdown he says doing 100+ with a light band at a average tempo is brilliant for tendon strenght as it increases blood flow to the area. My question are how many times a week can you do this for one particular muscle say tricep or bicep or hamstring. Everyday? Twice a week? Once a week?


2. We all know SDHP are made by satan to ruin our shoulders and I will never do another one for as long as I live but I see louie says to do alot of upright rows with bands or bar weight for middle delts. My question is what is the difference between the upright row motion of the SDHP and the upright row westside uses. My middle delts are weak but I do not want to get a shoulder injury from doing them?
__________________
My Log 19, 5'9, 160lbs, Deadlift 345, Back Squat 285, Front Squat 220, Bench Press 185, Strict Press 115x3, Squat Clean 175x2, Squat Snatch 135
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 04:27 AM   #60
Evan Peikon
Banned Evan Peikon is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: East Northport  NY
Posts: 650
Re: What is your #1 strength training question?

If all your recovery and lifestyle factors are in check would there be any reason that training 7 days a week wouldn't be beneficial.
Or in other words would you get more progress if you training as much volume as you can while still staying within your recovery potential.

ie) im 19, eat well (and a lot), sleep 8-9 hours a night and I've been training 6 days a week often trying to push the envelope to see how much i can do and I've never had a day where I'm not 100% recovered the next morning (have also been PR'nig on every ME upper/lower day). in an instance like this would training more be better?
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
strength training Lorenzo Sponzilli Starting 6 06-03-2012 02:16 PM
weekend strength training programming question Evan Peikon Fitness 10 01-09-2012 05:36 AM
nutrition question for strength training Larry Duncan Nutrition 12 01-25-2011 07:13 AM
CF with Strength training Scott A. Fout Starting 7 10-01-2007 09:38 PM
Strength Training Question Dave Bullis Fitness 3 07-11-2005 03:49 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.