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Old 08-08-2011, 12:45 PM   #1
Shane Jensen
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Knowshon Moreno Training at CF Verve w/ Video

http://www.sicfit.com/coverage/23738...e-by-Matt-Chan

Leaving out all the existential discussion about how he would do at the Games or any related topic (primarily because I couldn't possibly care less), pretty cool video here detailing Broncos running back Knowshon Moreno training at CF Verve with Matt Chan during the NFL lockout.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:03 PM   #2
Jonathan Dudley
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Re: Knowshon Moreno Training at CF Verve w/ Video

I saw this earlier today, pretty cool video. I will be interested to see how he does on the field this season.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:20 PM   #3
Mark Boyle
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Re: Knowshon Moreno Training at CF Verve w/ Video

A lot of stuff I find odd there...
Why drop the weight when he already wasn't a large back?
How are KB swings going to improve his ability to grip a football? They're held in totally different ways.
Why do 1 minute of swings? That is going to be heavily glycolytic in nature (and football isn't).
Why train "Fran"? That is a huge investment in recovery time dedicated to training a metabolic pathway that isn't maximally stressed in football.
More importantly, why is Fran being used as a key indicator of progress. This is the equivalent of a marathon runner using VJ as an indicator of training success.
Why do kipping pullups? How does this benefit a football player exactly?

I'm not an expert on football training but I know enough to ask questions, and unless there are some VERY good answers for the above, I have to wonder about the quality of the instruction he's recieving.

Its nice to see him working hard, and I hope he's rewarded with a good season (especially since he's on my fantasy team) but I really don't understand why a pro athlete wouldn't try to do something more specific to his sport.

Last edited by Mark Boyle : 08-08-2011 at 01:24 PM. Reason: added content
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:07 PM   #4
Ryan Earle
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Re: Knowshon Moreno Training at CF Verve w/ Video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Boyle View Post
How are KB swings going to improve his ability to grip a football? They're held in totally different ways.
I can't answer all of your questions, but the KB workout has been featured often Crossfitfootball.com (WFS)

Full WoD:
One Minute On...One Minute Off...for 10 minutes.

30 KB Swings - 2 pood

*You have 1 minute to get 30 KB swings. If you do not get 30 KB Swings in 1 minute, count a penalty.
*Perform this workout one minute on and one minute off. Total time is 10 minutes.

*For every penalty counted, perform a 1000 meter row.
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:30 PM   #5
Mark Boyle
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Re: Knowshon Moreno Training at CF Verve w/ Video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Earle View Post
I can't answer all of your questions, but the KB workout has been featured often Crossfitfootball.com (WFS)

Full WoD:
One Minute On...One Minute Off...for 10 minutes.

30 KB Swings - 2 pood

*You have 1 minute to get 30 KB swings. If you do not get 30 KB Swings in 1 minute, count a penalty.
*Perform this workout one minute on and one minute off. Total time is 10 minutes.

*For every penalty counted, perform a 1000 meter row.
IMO the fact that it is on crossfitfootball.com (wfs) in NO way makes it football specific or a particularly good idea for football training. But I've already coverd my thoughts on this here:
http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=68868 (wfs)
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:37 PM   #6
Ryan Earle
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Re: Knowshon Moreno Training at CF Verve w/ Video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Boyle View Post
IMO the fact that it is on crossfitfootball.com (wfs) in NO way makes it football specific or a particularly good idea for football training. But I've already coverd my thoughts on this here:
http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=68868 (wfs)
I am obviously not a Football Coach -- but I would think based on John's writing Crossfit Football would be a great workout for Football players in addition to skill work.

He does advertise it as a Power Athlete program. However -- he has some really great articles on his blog at: http://talktomejohnnie.com/ (not always worksafe)
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:00 PM   #7
Mark Boyle
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Re: Knowshon Moreno Training at CF Verve w/ Video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Earle View Post
I am obviously not a Football Coach -- but I would think based on John's writing Crossfit Football would be a great workout for Football players in addition to skill work.

He does advertise it as a Power Athlete program. However -- he has some really great articles on his blog at: http://talktomejohnnie.com/ (not always worksafe)
This article was published at elitefts.com (wfs) a very recently.
http://articles.elitefts.com/article...nsive-linemen/ (wfs)
You should read that paying particular attention to the SPP to increase alactic power and SPP to increase alactic capacity sections.

Also pay attention to this part:
Quote:
Now considering these guidelines, here is my rant. If you choose to use any of these drills, DO NOT be the moron that has someone push a Prowler for 50 – 100 yards or some idiotic suicide drill with a video camera on them while screaming obscenities or the obligatory “come on, push it” bull**** and try to say it is SPP.
Now, I ask you: Does doing 1-minute KB swings with 1000 meter punishment rows sound like SPP to develop football conditioning, or does it sound like what the author mentions in his rant?
Edit to add: note that this article is focusing specifically on linemen. These drills wouldn't be SPP for a RB like Moreno, but the work/rest would be similar.

Here is another elitefts Q&A:
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=61049&tid=4 (wfs)
I've quoted the part that is most relevant to this discussion below:
Quote:
Anaerobic glycolysis, though it often supplies a large share of the energy in team sports, is not worthy of training focus because it is never fully taxed in team sports (it never reaches full power or full capacity). ATP-PC is obviously incredibly important due to the presence of repeated, high-intensity, short-duration efforts. The more powerful the aerobic system, the less you will have to rely on anaerobic glycolysis to replenish ATP-PC, which is a good thing because a high rate of prolonged anaerobic glycolysis is not compatible with sustained, high-level performance. Therefore, because it is not an important contributor to sport success, to incur the training stress necessary to improve it is not worth the time and effort. Training the anaerobic glycolytic system may result in improved oxidative capabilities in a good share of athletes (especially low-level), but such improvements can be made with a lesser input by targeting lower intensities.
Having read this, doesn't it seem odd to have "Fran" be a key indicator of progress for a football player? Doesn't it seem odd to have 1-minute intervals of KB swings (and especially odd to exect these to improve one's ability to grip a football)?

Power athlete? Sure, I buy that. But if you are a PRO, shouldn't you be doing something that is more specific than "power athlete"? You make millions a year... pay $50,000 and have your offseason plan tailored specifically to your sport, your position and your individual physical needs by someone with a good record of training elite athletes (preferably ones in your sport).

Last edited by Mark Boyle : 08-08-2011 at 03:04 PM. Reason: extra content
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:01 PM   #8
Shane Jensen
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Re: Knowshon Moreno Training at CF Verve w/ Video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Boyle View Post
Why drop the weight when he already wasn't a large back?
Probably because (speculating here) that despite the fact that he wasn't a huge back, one of the knocks on him was that he was slow. One would assume based on that semi-popular criticism that he's trying to get quicker.

Whether shedding the weight and training with Chan will be the most efficient way to get him there is up for discussion.
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:01 PM   #9
Josh W Smith
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Re: Knowshon Moreno Training at CF Verve w/ Video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Boyle View Post
A lot of stuff I find odd there...
Why drop the weight when he already wasn't a large back?
How are KB swings going to improve his ability to grip a football? They're held in totally different ways.
Why do 1 minute of swings? That is going to be heavily glycolytic in nature (and football isn't).
Why train "Fran"? That is a huge investment in recovery time dedicated to training a metabolic pathway that isn't maximally stressed in football.
More importantly, why is Fran being used as a key indicator of progress. This is the equivalent of a marathon runner using VJ as an indicator of training success.
Why do kipping pullups? How does this benefit a football player exactly?

I'm not an expert on football training but I know enough to ask questions, and unless there are some VERY good answers for the above, I have to wonder about the quality of the instruction he's recieving.

Its nice to see him working hard, and I hope he's rewarded with a good season (especially since he's on my fantasy team) but I really don't understand why a pro athlete wouldn't try to do something more specific to his sport.
Well most of these questions seem a little dumb. Isnt the idea of crossfit to crosstrain people? kettle bell swings are going to make you stronger period. so thats how it will increase his grib strength. kipping pullups are a great core workout. how will this not benifit a football player. as for the fran, he is doing crossfit so why not have him do fran a couple times? especially for the cameras? as for the weight He is an agile back not a powerful one. Carrying 15lbs of fat isnt going to help you do this http://www.stilettosetsports.com/wp-...-nfl-draft.jpg (WFS)
yes thats him from his college days at UGA.
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:01 PM   #10
Mark Boyle
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Re: Knowshon Moreno Training at CF Verve w/ Video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh W Smith View Post
Well most of these questions seem a little dumb. Isnt the idea of crossfit to crosstrain people? kettle bell swings are going to make you stronger period. so thats how it will increase his grib strength. kipping pullups are a great core workout. how will this not benifit a football player. as for the fran, he is doing crossfit so why not have him do fran a couple times? especially for the cameras? as for the weight He is an agile back not a powerful one. Carrying 15lbs of fat isnt going to help you do this http://www.stilettosetsports.com/wp-...-nfl-draft.jpg (WFS)
yes thats him from his college days at UGA.
I think you completely missed the point of my questions.

Here's a hint: He doesn't get paid for doing crossfit.
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