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Old 06-10-2010, 05:49 PM   #21
Anthony Giurato
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Re: Power clean, warm-up to max

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Degenaro View Post
There is no difference in speed between your first and second pull other than yanking the bar to your shoulders with your upper body. Use those legs to propel the bar up.
Any better on my sets yesterday?

165 lbs x 3 x 5: (all WFS)
Set 1
Set 2
Set 3
Set 4
Set 5

I'm doing Starting Strength. Should I stall at the weight I'm doing now before I go up any more? It's not too heavy, but I'm concerned for technique's sake.
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:17 PM   #22
Brian Degenaro
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Re: Power clean, warm-up to max

You're not hitting full extension of the legs, which is causing you not to brush the bar, and like I mentioned before, your scapular need to be retracted harder at the start and remain that way all throughout.

Only add weight until you do the lifts right. I've been forcing myself to do that for the past month and haven't lifted above 80% because of it. In the long run, it will help a lot.
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Old 06-11-2010, 06:12 AM   #23
Anthony Giurato
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Re: Power clean, warm-up to max

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Originally Posted by Brian Degenaro View Post
You're not hitting full extension of the legs, which is causing you not to brush the bar, and like I mentioned before, your scapular need to be retracted harder at the start and remain that way all throughout.
Arg, too many things to think about at once. Ok, I'm going to assume that the need to squeeze my scapular should be the same with the deadlift also, right? I be doing my SS deadlift day today or tomorrow, and I'll try to see if I can hammer that into my brain then.

Which part(s) and I supposed to brush the bar? I'm assuming brush means "lightly touch" or "graze". My understanding is that the bar starts pretty much next to the shins, moves upwards grazing the hairs on your shins and barely avoiding the knees, then touching the thigh when you jump. From there, you keep the bar going vertical with your body as close to it as you can without touching it. Is this right?

I'm assuming you mean full extension of the legs after my hips open up and I jump, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Degenaro View Post
Only add weight until you do the lifts right. I've been forcing myself to do that for the past month and haven't lifted above 80% because of it. In the long run, it will help a lot.
Crap, patience. That part is never fun. Especially when you start out. I'll hold the weight at 165 lbs for the time being.

Am I at least doing better at propelling the bar up than before? If I'm just doing a deadlift followed by an assisted upright row, then it's not just bad form, it's not a power clean.

BTW, thanks for taking the time to watch and comment.
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:31 AM   #24
Brian Degenaro
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Re: Power clean, warm-up to max

The brush ... can be very loud sometimes. It's a sign of good positioning, a good brush, and quick, aggressive extension. It aids in upwards acceleration of the bar and downward acceleration of you.

For example, watch Caleb Ward clean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxb_Cb1d9ro WFS. If you've ever stood next to someone who is an excellent lifter, that's usually the sound you'll hear from the brush. this is why so many people think you're purposefully slamming the hips into the bar instead of vertically driving the hips and legs.

I think if you get your hips lower and squeeze your scapula together, things will fall into place. You can't get a really good brush with your hips that high and back that "soft".
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:23 AM   #25
Anthony Giurato
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Re: Power clean, warm-up to max

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Degenaro View Post
The brush ... can be very loud sometimes. It's a sign of good positioning, a good brush, and quick, aggressive extension. It aids in upwards acceleration of the bar and downward acceleration of you.

For example, watch Caleb Ward clean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxb_Cb1d9ro WFS. If you've ever stood next to someone who is an excellent lifter, that's usually the sound you'll hear from the brush. this is why so many people think you're purposefully slamming the hips into the bar instead of vertically driving the hips and legs.

I think if you get your hips lower and squeeze your scapula together, things will fall into place. You can't get a really good brush with your hips that high and back that "soft".
Ok, I'll focus on lower hips and a tighter scapula next time.

Right now, what should I be doing for technique work? I have my SS deadlifts tonight, but tomorrow I could do an easy session of just cleans. Should I be using PVC, just the bar, or a % of my max? Should I aim for lots of really light reps (95 lbs or below) or things like singles/doubles/triples with something like 135 lbs and generous rest?
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Old 06-11-2010, 10:29 AM   #26
Brian Degenaro
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Re: Power clean, warm-up to max

Singles, doubles and triples, starting at 95lbs and going up to whatever feels comfortably heavy but not taxing at all, obviously with generous rest (2-3 min).
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Old 06-15-2010, 05:38 PM   #27
Anthony Giurato
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Re: Power clean, warm-up to max

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Originally Posted by Brian Degenaro View Post
I think if you get your hips lower and squeeze your scapula together, things will fall into place. You can't get a really good brush with your hips that high and back that "soft".
Ok, here are my next power clean sets. I tried lowering my hips from the start, but I had trouble. I've injured/strained my lower back several times in the past, and it still seems like something is wrong with it. I'm not sure if it's weak, inflexible, or what, but it is still a problem. I think I'll post on the Injury board about it.

For now, we can talk about power cleans here. I did 165 lbs for the first three sets, and then 135 for the last two. The first one I was mainly thinking "pull shoulder blades together. The next 4 I was more focused on starting with my hips lower and keeping that angle.

What I realized was that I couldn't do it with 165 lbs. On sets 2 and 3, I could feel myself really muscling the bar up with my arms. At the same time, I could feel myself doing it as my body was having trouble keeping a strong midsection. So, my theory is that as I stood up and prepared to jump, my body was protecting itself and instinctively pulled with the upper body. Can you notice in the videos 2 and 3 that I am doing pretty much all of the pulling with my arms?

I lowered the weight to 135 lbs in sets 4 and 5. Do those look a lot better? I didn't feel my back giving out on those.

All 5 WFS
Set 1: 3 x 165 lbs
Set 2: 3 x 165 lbs
Set 3: 3 x 165 lbs
Set 4: 3 x 135 lbs
Set 5: 3 x 135 lbs

Is it possible I have body type that will perform better with an angle where my butt is higher and my back is closer to parallel to the ground? Or do I just need to strengthen/loosen/fix whatever the problem is in my back?

Last edited by Anthony Giurato : 06-15-2010 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 06-16-2010, 05:39 PM   #28
Brian Degenaro
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Re: Power clean, warm-up to max

You just need to get a feel for retracted scapula, and make sure your abs and legs are tight in your set position.

When you jump/extend, make it aggressive and forceful. Find videos of lifters from a similar angle as you and look how much quicker they extend the knees to jump/extend. Lastly, when you pull under to receive the bar, just squat under it, don't dive, don't drop, don't pull, just squat. That is all you are really doing to get under a bar is squat it. That last part was a little paraphrasing from Mark Cameron.
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:55 PM   #29
Anthony Giurato
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Re: Power clean, warm-up to max

Dang, 11 days since my last post. Anyways, today and tomorrow are off days for SS. I decided to do some technique work. For a change, I did full cleans instead of the power variety.

5 x 95 lbs
4 x 105 lbs
3 x 115 lbs
2 x 125 lbs
1 x 7 (135, 140, 145, 150, 155, 160, 165) lbs

Cleans work. (WFS)

I've been focusing on:
  • Starting with my hips lower.
  • Lightly pulling on the bar to tighten everything before I start moving the weight.
  • Trying to throw the weight up with my hips instead of my arms.

Am I looking any better?
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Old 06-26-2010, 07:29 PM   #30
Brian Degenaro
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Re: Power clean, warm-up to max

Position is better, some adjustments need to be made, and speed is lacking still. Get your shoulders in line with the bar at the start, so instead of starting with your weight balanced at the heel, start with it towards the ball of the foot (shift back immediately when you lift off the floor). Still gotta tighten up those scapula.

And once you get ready to jump/extend, put everything you've got into it. Drive through with the legs as hard and as fast as friggin' possible. Dimas, Aramnau, and Kasharina do that very well if you want video references.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k-Dfnin9TA WFS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18NwJYUQUvU WFS

http://liftup.chidlovski.net/liftup/....asp?vclip=130 WFS
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