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Old 02-26-2010, 12:05 PM   #41
Steve Rakow
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Re: A comment here from "Marys" video on Main Site

CrossFit is, by far, one of THE best GPP programs around. Period. You can do whatever you want, but no other program that I've seen can produce the results the CrossFit does if you just push yourself to follow the program and eat well. If your idea of "fit" and athleticism is just pure strength, then you don't understand CrossFit's definition of strength. That's fine. You're entitled to your own opinion.

Funny how those who disagree with all of the enthusiasm and eagerness to spread the good word about CrossFit spend an inordinate amount of time on these boards bashing CrossFit. It's evident in their posts and the number of posts (i.e. time spent here rather than on their business or actually training). I wish they'd actually challenge, with empirical data, the fact that CrossFit increases work capacity across broad time and modal domains. We have our data to prove that CF does just that (look at the comments with times/loads posted over the years). That's our definition of fitness. If that doesn't match up with whatever your definition of fitness is, fine. Go someplace else. It's just like someone coming into your house and then bashing you for how you live.

If calling ourselves elite bothers you, then please keep it to yourself and go cry to others on some other forum. Afterall, it doesn't seem to bother CrossFitters, only quasi-CrossFitters and the bashers.
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:15 PM   #42
Wayne Riddle
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Re: A comment here from "Marys" video on Main Site

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Rakow View Post
You can do whatever you want, but no other program that I've seen can produce the results the CrossFit does if you just push yourself to follow the program and eat well.
I could say the exact same thing about so many other programs out there.
 
Old 02-26-2010, 12:27 PM   #43
Steve Rakow
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Re: A comment here from "Marys" video on Main Site

But you failed to list them.
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:31 PM   #44
Jonathan Yoon
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Re: A comment here from "Marys" video on Main Site

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Originally Posted by Steve Rakow View Post
But you failed to list them.
He actually doesn't have to.

This circles back to the Lyle McDonald thread and the Burden of Proof fallacy (WFS) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philoso...urden_of_proof
 
Old 02-26-2010, 01:17 PM   #45
Jay Ashman
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Re: A comment here from "Marys" video on Main Site

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Rakow View Post
CrossFit is, by far, one of THE best GPP programs around. Period. You can do whatever you want, but no other program that I've seen can produce the results the CrossFit does if you just push yourself to follow the program and eat well. If your idea of "fit" and athleticism is just pure strength, then you don't understand CrossFit's definition of strength. That's fine. You're entitled to your own opinion.

Funny how those who disagree with all of the enthusiasm and eagerness to spread the good word about CrossFit spend an inordinate amount of time on these boards bashing CrossFit. It's evident in their posts and the number of posts (i.e. time spent here rather than on their business or actually training). I wish they'd actually challenge, with empirical data, the fact that CrossFit increases work capacity across broad time and modal domains. We have our data to prove that CF does just that (look at the comments with times/loads posted over the years). That's our definition of fitness. If that doesn't match up with whatever your definition of fitness is, fine. Go someplace else. It's just like someone coming into your house and then bashing you for how you live.

If calling ourselves elite bothers you, then please keep it to yourself and go cry to others on some other forum. Afterall, it doesn't seem to bother CrossFitters, only quasi-CrossFitters and the bashers.
other good GPP programs:

Lifting with sprints
Ross training
Zach Even-esh underground gym
joe defranco's system
etc.

CrossFit is a good GPP program as well, but that it all it is.

There are so many ways to achieve GPP and all CrossFit did was take basic circuit training, market it and expand upon it. I give them credit where it is due, but the attitude that its "changing the world" is preposterous. Arnold changed the world, he almost single-handedly put lifting weights in people's basements. Because of him, lifting weights became something that most teenage kids wanted to do. Even that is a stretch. WW2 changed the world, 9/11 changed the world, all workouts do is get you in shape and give you a sense of community.

Its the blown out of proportion nature that some people take this to which makes it ridiculous.

And the burden of proof is on CF to prove its the best, not the other way around. They claim it, prove it. And I don't mean with workouts, I mean in actual athletic competitions.

The problem with the broad time and modal domains is that it never really applies unless it is for CF only. Every other sporting event has set parameters; time, distance, weight, etc. that are all trained for exclusively. CF just makes their own standards for their own needs, and that is fine, but that means nothing outside of CF. Sure it is great for military guys, martial artists and those who want to be in shape, but when it comes to other applications we all know it won't be the best.

Of course I see the value in CF for people, but its not world changing, nor is it elite. Those are statements that make people shake their heads, and not just on the internet either.
 
Old 02-26-2010, 01:59 PM   #46
Thomas Green
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Re: A comment here from "Marys" video on Main Site

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Ashman View Post
other good GPP programs:

Lifting with sprints
Ross training
Zach Even-esh underground gym
joe defranco's system
etc.

CrossFit is a good GPP program as well, but that it all it is.

There are so many ways to achieve GPP and all CrossFit did was take basic circuit training, market it and expand upon it. I give them credit where it is due, but the attitude that its "changing the world" is preposterous. Arnold changed the world, he almost single-handedly put lifting weights in people's basements. Because of him, lifting weights became something that most teenage kids wanted to do. Even that is a stretch. WW2 changed the world, 9/11 changed the world, all workouts do is get you in shape and give you a sense of community.

Its the blown out of proportion nature that some people take this to which makes it ridiculous.

And the burden of proof is on CF to prove its the best, not the other way around. They claim it, prove it. And I don't mean with workouts, I mean in actual athletic competitions.

The problem with the broad time and modal domains is that it never really applies unless it is for CF only. Every other sporting event has set parameters; time, distance, weight, etc. that are all trained for exclusively. CF just makes their own standards for their own needs, and that is fine, but that means nothing outside of CF. Sure it is great for military guys, martial artists and those who want to be in shape, but when it comes to other applications we all know it won't be the best.

Of course I see the value in CF for people, but its not world changing, nor is it elite. Those are statements that make people shake their heads, and not just on the internet either.

To add to the list: Wrestling training, boxing training, football practice, pavel/kettlebells etc etc etc.

Good post. People need a little dose of reality every now and again. The "elite" thing has always annoyed me

Last edited by Thomas Green; 02-26-2010 at 02:01 PM..
 
Old 02-26-2010, 02:07 PM   #47
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Re: A comment here from "Marys" video on Main Site

Yep...just another naive CFer here that just doesn't understand anything beyond this board. There's other good exercise programs out there?
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:29 PM   #48
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Re: A comment here from "Marys" video on Main Site

Quote:
We have our data to prove that CF does just that (look at the comments with times/loads posted over the years). That's our definition of fitness. If that doesn't match up with whatever your definition of fitness is, fine
I think that THIS is a huge problem with CF. They DO NOT have their data. The comments look more like a facebook wall than anything resembling data. A few times/loads are posted but what was the form like? Look at how many fast fran videos are out there that are just not. Folks that bash CF for sport are obnoxious, but too may CrossFitters bash EVERYTHING! Look at the video of Castro throwing a magazine around because he didn't agree with what they said. it isn't that CF isn't a great GGP program (it is) it is just not the only good gpp program. Far too many CF coaches lack any experience with any form of fitness other than CF. They did this and that, but in the end they were butchers and bakers and candlestick-makers before entering the fitness world at all. CrossFit will make you fit as ****. That's the slogan they should stick with.
 
Old 02-26-2010, 06:09 PM   #49
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Re: A comment here from "Marys" video on Main Site

Once again, our definition of fitness is increased work capacity across broad time and modal domains. That hasn't been challenged by anyone and that is our proof of elite fitness. Why is that hard to understand? Take any data points you want and plug them in (yes, CrossFit workouts can get plugged in and that is an ongoing experiment). Come back six months later and test all the workouts done and there will be increased capacity across the board, not in just one domain (i.e. strength). Our aim is broad, general, and inclusive fitness and training for the unknown and unknowable. If you want to train for something specific, then do it. But if you want true GPP, then CrossFit is the ticket. And it does make you better conditioned for your specific sport. I see it everyday in the folks we train who also have sporting endeavors outside of CrossFit. So, why, if you don't believe in CF, do you come onto the boards to troll around and stir the pot looking for a fight. If you don't like it, quit, leave, get lost. Go do whatever it is that you do and in six months or so come back and let us know how that works for you.

The comment about crappy coaching, bad form, or coaches with little to no experience outside of CF can be said about any sport, anywhere. That's smoke and mirrors and NOT a valid challenge to the CF definition of fitness.

I know CF works for thousands of people and it is making a change in the world regardless of how small that change may be right now. I'm not bashing any other method. If something else works for you, then go for it. Just stop trolling around here.

BTW - If my positive opinions of CrossFit, on the CrossFit message board, promoting CrossFit offend you, then tough ****. This is my community and I support it 100%. Until you have something positive to add to fitness and another program that improves work capacity, ask yourself why you're wasting time posting negative, or anti-, CrossFit comments and positions on the CrossFit message board.
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Old 02-26-2010, 06:15 PM   #50
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: A comment here from "Marys" video on Main Site

Oh relax. It's a fitness regimen, not the answer for world hunger.
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