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Old 10-11-2013, 11:40 AM   #191
Todd Neal
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Re: Renegade Diet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Derksen View Post
The body is never looking around going 'aw crap where are all my building blocks. I TOLD you I needed 1g per lb of bodyweight'.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:50 PM   #192
Michael Dries
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Re: Renegade Diet

To add, Dr. Lowery over at the Iron Radio pod cast reports that (thought calculation from himself and his grad students) that it appears that it takes about 2800 surplus calories to build 1# of muscle mass. Perhaps that can be leveraged into finding a decent surplus to start with.
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Old 10-12-2013, 03:37 AM   #193
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Renegade Diet

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1895363 WFS

Quote:
The effect(s) of exercise on dietary protein requirements has (have) been a controversial topic for many years. Although most expert committees on nutrition have not provided an additional allowance of protein for active individuals, a considerable amount of experimental evidence has accumulated during the past 15 years which indicates that regular exercise does in fact increase protein needs. Part of the confusion is due to methodological difficulties and inadequate control of several interacting factors including: diet composition, total energy intake, exercise intensity, duration and training, ambient temperature, gender, and perhaps even age. Although definitive dietary recommendations for various athletic groups must await future study, the weight of current evidence suggests that strength or speed athletes should consume about 1.2-1.7 g protein/kg body weight.d-1 (approximately 100-212% of current recommendations) and endurance athletes about 1.2-1.4 g/kg.d-1 (approximately 100-175% of current recommendations). These quantities of protein can be obtained from a diet which consists of 12-15% energy from protein, unless total energy intake is insufficient. There is no evidence that protein intakes in this range will cause any adverse effects. Future studies with large sample sizes, adequate controls, and performance as well as physiological/biochemical measures are necessary to fine tune these recommendations.
And some more:

http://jp.physoc.org/content/552/1/315.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129168/
both WFS
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:37 PM   #194
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Renegade Diet

Something for you guys, that likes to understand "how things work", something about Autophagy.

Quote:
Breaking it Down to Build it Up

Fundamentally this what we are doing when we are in the gym. We’re doing some damage and stressing our muscles so they can repair and come back stronger.

It reminds me of the plot of just about every Rocky movie. Rocky fights and Rocky gets his *** handed to him. Rocky makes a comeback. Rocky is bigger faster and stronger. Rocky wins.

Eye of the tiger.

I think we all kind of ‘get this’ when it comes to training, but what we might not get is the role that nutrition plays (or should play) in the breaking it down and building it up of our bodies.
Enter Autophagy

Autophagy is a process within your body that is responsible for degrading damaged and defective organelles, cell membranes and proteins. Basically it’s your body’s internal ‘maintenance system’ where it identifies and discards damaged or malfunctioning parts of a cell.

Simply put, autophagy is the clean up that needs to happen before growth and repair can occur.

The problem is it seems that both lab animals and human beings left to eat as they please do too little autophagic recycling.

The resulting accumulation of damaged cellular machinery can cause a wide range of unhealthy effects, including the accumulation of damaged mitochondria which can lead to poorly functioning muscle mass.

So the more time spent in the fed state, the less time you have to really ramp up the autophagic process within your body.

This is where fasting comes in to play. Fasting is a very potent promoter of the autophagic process.
Fasting for Muscle Mass

The strong connection between autophagy and fasting is due to the fact that the principle signal to turn up the ‘autophagy dial’ is the act of entering the fasted state.

And, if fasting is the signal to turn on autophagy, then eating is the signal to turn it off, or at the very least, turn it down.

Sadly, it doesn’t take a feast or a junk food binge to negatively affect autophagy.

Recent research published in 2010 found as little as 3 grams of the branched chain amino acid Leucine combined with 7 grams of EAA (10 grams of total amino acids) was enough to decrease autophagy markers in otherwise fasting humans.

So even a small meal in the middle of a fast may be enough to blunt the increased autophagic processes associated with fasting.

The upregulation of autophagy seems to be unique to the fasting state, as well as possibly the exercised state, and it can easily be undone by even a small ingestion of food, specifically protein / amino acids.
Autophagy and Muscle Mass

Autophagy is actually necessary to maintain muscle mass, and inhibition/alteration of autophagy can contribute to myofibril degeneration (degeneration of individual muscle fiber) and weakness in certain types of muscle disorders.

Both excess and reduced levels of autophagy are detrimental for muscle health; the former results in the loss of muscle mass, whereas the latter causes skeletal fiber degeneration and weakness.

So you wouldn’t want autophagy on all the time (fasting for weeks on end is probably not the best thing you could do for your muscle), but you do need a healthy balance of autophagy and growth for the optimal functioning of the human body (Year-long bulking cycles are probably also a bad idea).

So it’s not just your workouts that break you down and build you back up – your diet does the same thing.
The Need for Balance

By allowing for growth when we eat, and the autophagic process of repair maintenance and cleansing when we are fasting, we help restore a balance in the muscle building process, not to mention possibly playing a role in prevention of muscle loss as we age.

The key is there needs to be a balance – You can’t overeat all the time or fast all the time without expecting some sort of negative repercussions.

As with everything, there needs to be a balance – time spent training balanced with time spent resting, and time spent eating balanced with time spent fasting.

It is the optimal balance (and possibly timing) of these processes that allows for the breakdown of damaged muscle proteins, and the build up of new, bigger, healthier muscles.
http://jasonferruggia.com/intermitte...d-muscle-gain/ WFS
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:23 PM   #195
Jordan Derksen
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Re: Renegade Diet

It's nice to see it put into words. As someone who had a very hard time gaining muscle mass I found that I actually would kick my body into small gains when I would fast. It was always just listening to my body like just knowing I am not hungry right now so I'd fast a half day or something and only have supper. Then all week I'd be set up to eat a lot more than normal and gain a few. But trying to stuff myself and gain all the time would wear me down. That was a good read.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:23 PM   #196
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Renegade Diet

Jordan, as for the protein requirements, there is an e-book about it from the same author, Brad Pilon.

To sum it up:

Quote:
For the purpose of building muscle mass I think the goal should be a general
recommendation of 70-120 grams of protein per day, and this should be an
average intake. As long as you average around 70-120 grams per day you could
be lower on some days and slightly higher on others, but muscle growth will
still occur.
I have also explained that there may be times during excessive exercise or
extreme hypocaloric diets where an intake closer to 150 grams per day may
temporarily be warranted.
There is no magic to the strict time period of 24 hours. We live our lives in 24
hour chunks out of convenience with the sun’s schedule, but we tend to
assume our nutritional and metabolic needs work this way as well, but this
isn’t the case. There is no reason to stress over the amount of protein you have
eaten over a 24 hour period, some days you’ll be a bit higher, some days you’ll
be a bit lower, it’s the average over weeks and months that matters not hours
and days.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:46 AM   #197
Jordan Derksen
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Re: Renegade Diet

I just ran out of Protein and I'm going to try going without it. If I can save 70 bucks every month or so that's a bonus. A few months of that and I can buy an Airdyne or something. I eat a lot of protein rich foods as is so I should be fine but I'll monitor my recovery closely and see how it goes. It's the one thing I've never tried going without so this could be fun.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:50 AM   #198
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Renegade Diet

Im guessing yer talking about protein powder? Yea, that is not needed if your diet is rich enough.
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Old 10-15-2013, 07:30 AM   #199
Jayme Gruber
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Re: Renegade Diet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Santos View Post
Drop the avocado at 11 and drop the brown rice at 4pm. Save your carbs for post workout. It looks like you are having about 2400 calories. Drop it to about 2200.
That isn't a little low on the calories for days I workout?

I thought for some reason you did carbs before and after a workout. Would you drop the rice altogether or add it to my dinner?
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:56 AM   #200
Paulo Santos
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Re: Renegade Diet

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Originally Posted by Jayme Gruber View Post
That isn't a little low on the calories for days I workout?

I thought for some reason you did carbs before and after a workout. Would you drop the rice altogether or add it to my dinner?
Try to save your carbs for after 4pm (other than veggies). I generally have about 1500 calories for dinner. As far as calories go, that is depending on your goals. Start with 2400 and see how it goes.
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