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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 03-19-2010, 08:04 AM   #81
Ryan Hoegner
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Re: Since You Guys Are Always Wondering About Sport Carry-Over

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Originally Posted by Adam Acosta View Post
His ability to recover right now is absurd. He came in Tuesday and did a 12-minute AMRAP getting almost 100 more reps than anyone else in the gym that day. Everyone else I know that competed was barely able to walk on Tuesday.
That's nuts!
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Old 03-19-2010, 08:12 AM   #82
Ryan Earle
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Re: Since You Guys Are Always Wondering About Sport Carry-Over

http://www.crossfit.com/journal/libr...F_Template.pdf - A Theoretical Template for CrossFit’s Programming by Greg Glassman

Snip:
The template is engineered to allow for a wide and constantly varied stimulus, randomized within some parameters, but still true to the aims and purposes of CrossFit as described in the “What is Fitness?” issue. Our template contains sufficient structure to formalize or define our programming objectives while not setting in stone parameters that must be left to variance if the workouts are going to meet our needs. That is our mission – to ideally blend structure and flexibility.

It is not our intention to suggest that your workouts should or that our workouts do fit neatly and cleanly within the template, for that is absolutely not the case. But, the template does offer sufficient structure to aid comprehension, reflect the bulk of our programming concerns, and not hamstring the need for radically varying stimulus. So as not to seem redundant, what we are saying here is that the purpose of the template is as much descriptive as prescriptive.
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Old 03-19-2010, 08:13 AM   #83
Moran Bentzur
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Re: Since You Guys Are Always Wondering About Sport Carry-Over

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Please provide a link to an official CFHQ statement that the programming is, or should be, random. "Constantly varied" and "random" are not the same thing.

Katherine
Can you please elaborate on the distinction between these and how it is implemented in the main site WODs? What is the micro/macro programming that is implemented into main site WODs?
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Old 03-19-2010, 08:14 AM   #84
Justin Z. Smith
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Re: Since You Guys Are Always Wondering About Sport Carry-Over

To me, varied just means doing different stuff, while randomness means that events happen according to a probability distribution (ie. some structure). For example, the bell curve:

http://www.jcu.edu/math/isep/Quincunx/Quincunx.html
(safe for work, family, etc.)

It is random, you can't predict with certainty where any one ball will go, but there is an overall structure, parameters that you can tweak to change the center and spread. In workout terms, you can tell your workout where you take you, randomly select the exercises, times, cadence, sets, reps, weights, etc., when to do benchmark workout(s), rest days, as appropriate. You plan and set the structure up in advance for say a few months or a year, so when it comes to workout time you press a button, and accept whatever comes out as the workout to do.

Randomness implies variety, but variety does not necessarily imply randomness. Variety in practice is often more like instinctive training, or "whatever the coach feels like doing today".


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Old 03-19-2010, 08:25 AM   #85
Moran Bentzur
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Re: Since You Guys Are Always Wondering About Sport Carry-Over

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Originally Posted by Ryan Earle View Post
http://www.crossfit.com/journal/libr...F_Template.pdf - A Theoretical Template for CrossFit’s Programming by Greg Glassman

Snip:
The template is engineered to allow for a wide and constantly varied stimulus, randomized within some parameters, but still true to the aims and purposes of CrossFit as described in the “What is Fitness?” issue. Our template contains sufficient structure to formalize or define our programming objectives while not setting in stone parameters that must be left to variance if the workouts are going to meet our needs. That is our mission – to ideally blend structure and flexibility.

It is not our intention to suggest that your workouts should or that our workouts do fit neatly and cleanly within the template, for that is absolutely not the case. But, the template does offer sufficient structure to aid comprehension, reflect the bulk of our programming concerns, and not hamstring the need for radically varying stimulus. So as not to seem redundant, what we are saying here is that the purpose of the template is as much descriptive as prescriptive.
Ryan, if you follow that prescription (especially the part where it says that you shouldn't follow the template), or draw workouts from a WOD deck, which is random, you would get the same thing (or something indistinguishable) in the long run.
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Old 03-19-2010, 08:54 AM   #86
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Since You Guys Are Always Wondering About Sport Carry-Over

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Originally Posted by Moran Bentzur View Post
Can you please elaborate on the distinction between these and how it is implemented in the main site WODs? What is the micro/macro programming that is implemented into main site WODs?
I do not speak for CFHQ, and have better things to do with my morning than analyze a couple months worth of WODs. Were you to do so, however, I think you would find both individual microcycles that focus on particular fitness domains and/or body parts, and longer macrocycles that ensure coverage of all fitness domains on a regular basis.

One could also deploy any of a number of mathematical tools to rigorously analyze the randomness of the WODs. The methods are well known, but I honestly don't care enough to invest the time.

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Old 03-19-2010, 09:00 AM   #87
Marcel Zwinger
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Re: Since You Guys Are Always Wondering About Sport Carry-Over

if you take short time domains from a few seconds up to whatever and train as many as possible different movements with different loads/reps, you are increasing your power output in those domains.
of course along your training career, you might notice, that some movements might be "better" for certain things, some movements can be done more often and some things can lead to overtraining quickly if trained too excessively etc...
depending on your goals and weaknesses and time regime you might tweak your training plan.
and you are seeing great results.

does it really matter to you, if someone calls it Crossfit, Gym Gones, XYZ90 or whatever?
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:12 AM   #88
Moran Bentzur
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Re: Since You Guys Are Always Wondering About Sport Carry-Over

From the theoretical template journal article:
"At first glance the template seems to be offering a routine or regimen. This may seem at odds with our contention that workouts need considerable variance or unpredictability, if not randomness, to best mimic the often unforeseeable challenges that combat, sport, and survival demand and reward."

I also don't want to mathematically analyze the WODs to see if they are truly random or not. If no one can point to any organizational method, I'll keep assuming that they are undistinguishable from random.

And this is the point I'm tryng to make. Is constantly varied (to the point that it is undistinguishable from random) better or worse than a periodized program?
http://www.cathletics.com/articles/i...ty&shortyID=53 (wfs)
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:21 AM   #89
Ryan Earle
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Re: Since You Guys Are Always Wondering About Sport Carry-Over

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Originally Posted by Moran Bentzur View Post
Ryan, if you follow that prescription (especially the part where it says that you shouldn't follow the template), or draw workouts from a WOD deck, which is random, you would get the same thing (or something indistinguishable) in the long run.
I agree with you. I was simply posting it as more of an information tool, not trying to aid either side -- just I see a lot of people stating "What is CFHQ's stance?" I figured this would maybe help.
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:30 AM   #90
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Since You Guys Are Always Wondering About Sport Carry-Over

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Originally Posted by Moran Bentzur View Post
From the theoretical template journal article:
"At first glance the template seems to be offering a routine or regimen. This may seem at odds with our contention that workouts need considerable variance or unpredictability, if not randomness, to best mimic the often unforeseeable challenges that combat, sport, and survival demand and reward."
Nice selective quoting... From a few paragraphs further down:

Quote:
Our template contains sufficient structure to formalize
or define our programming objectives while not setting
in stone parameters that must be left to variance if the
workouts are going to meet our needs. That is our
mission – to ideally blend structure and flexibility.
And therein lies the difference between "varied" and "random."

Quote:
I also don't want to mathematically analyze the WODs to see if they are truly random or not. If no one can point to any organizational method, I'll keep assuming that they are undistinguishable from random.

And this is the point I'm tryng to make. Is constantly varied (to the point that it is undistinguishable from random) better or worse than a periodized program?
http://www.cathletics.com/articles/i...ty&shortyID=53 (wfs)
We've pointed to an organizational method: the template article.

The Catalyst Athletics article you linked discusses programming done at an affiliate with specific individuals in mind. I don't think anyone, including Coach Glassman, would deny that individualized goal-directed programming is likely to be more effective than one-size-fits-all generic programming. Which I guess brings us back to the "what is Crossfit?" debate. *Yawn.*

Katherine
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