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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 02-01-2010, 09:33 AM   #31
Bryan Kemper
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Re: CF as a strength and conditioning program?

I like the direction that the CFE and CFFB programs have taken to the question of strength programming. There is a Strength WOD component in addition to the met-con WOD posted. Granted, there is a bit of dichotomy between the two programs in that CFE states that one could do either .com WODs before/after the endurance training or perform the CFE S/C program. CFFB strives to build big, strong individuals that can perform in an explosive manner. Lifting heavy is a natural for this training and complements it well.

If there was a redesign of the main site WOD to include an optional S/C training offering that complemented the WOD, I would be absolutely ecstatic. It would make the WOD a bit longer, but not overly so. I enjoy seeing strength days on the main site, but could always benefit from some more strength. It may even make the met-con WODs quicker because you might get to the point that a "measly 95 lb thruster is for wusses, why don't we do that East German Fran on Steroids with 175 lb thrusters again..."

Just my thoughts....
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:51 AM   #32
Moran Bentzur
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Re: CF as a strength and conditioning program?

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Originally Posted by Bryan Kemper View Post
If there was a redesign of the main site WOD to include an optional S/C training offering that complemented the WOD, I would be absolutely ecstatic.
You should check out Crossfit Football. I think you may be absolutely ecstatic.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:54 AM   #33
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: CF as a strength and conditioning program?

"I like the direction that the CFE and CFFB programs"

Moran, how did you miss the first sentence?
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:31 AM   #34
Moran Bentzur
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Re: CF as a strength and conditioning program?

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
"I like the direction that the CFE and CFFB programs"

Moran, how did you miss the first sentence?
Easily.

My only excuse is that I read the whole 18 pages of "is crossfit right about fitness?" thread just before this thread. Though I have to say that Josh Briggs came with a great post at the last minute.
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:53 PM   #35
Doug Lantz
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Re: CF as a strength and conditioning program?

I would agree with Jay that this is a heavy metcon, a low rep scheme of weightlifting plus a gymnastics component followed by a "cardio" exercise.

However how metcon is it if you have to keep stopping because strength is holding you back ?

I have to think few of us could do this straight through as RX'd if only because of the muscle ups. Even the Games competitors were doing only 1 and 2 muscle ups at a time.

This WOD made think of "Kelly" which is clearly a straight metcon with little strength demand and no real strength building work.

I think Kelly works metcon much more intensely also because the only reason to stop or slow is how much discomfort you can take.

Lack of strength is why I'm finally doing Starting Strength, I just don't think I can ever get there with main page and time is not my side at 43.

Question for Joey Powell - What are the CFJ articles you spoke of ?
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Old 02-02-2010, 12:42 AM   #36
Michael Ingley
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Re: CF as a strength and conditioning program?

what I would like to build up to ideally, is doing a strength workout and wod while at the gym, and when I get home I'll later do some running or swimming work.
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:20 AM   #37
Jay Ashman
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Re: CF as a strength and conditioning program?

yes Doug.

also wouldn't it stand to reason that by doing strength work more consistently, it would be possible to do heavier metcons with more speed?
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Old 02-05-2010, 09:16 AM   #38
Dimitri Dziabenko
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Re: CF as a strength and conditioning program?

I dont know why the observation in the first post is so surprising.

If you think you can run 10k on one day, do 400m of lunges the next day
(at full intensity) and have a productive squat session on the third day,
I can tell you that most people probably cannot.

Also, I dont believe anybody goes to the gym, does 7 reps, goes home, and gets strong. Most strong people use the CF MP and probably a lot more.
Strength is a pretty individual thing, whereas conditioning is more general.
Both a fit and unfit person can benefit from a 4x400m run, but as a strength
workout, Fran only works for the unfit.


Personal superbiased opinion:
I'd love to see more gymnastics elements on the website.
I've started to work the rings recently (5'11" 190lb, it's tough), and
it's surprising that given how the muscle up is touted by Glassman as superfunctional, best upper body exercise etc..., strict MUs are hardly ever prescribed/encouraged on the MP. After all, kipping is faster, more powerful, better for fitness...Okay, whatever. I think the strength portion of the MP should be improved upon. It would involve a lot of work to post more systematic strength workouts though.

Finally, I am yet to see proof that the best preparation for any task involves training randomly.
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:23 AM   #39
Michael B. George
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Re: CF as a strength and conditioning program?

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Originally Posted by Jay Ashman View Post
my premise is that strength directly benefits all areas of fitness... if you look at the Dynamax principles of fitness (as used by CF) you can look at the other 9 principles and see how strength can help them all out.

CF is GPP. GPP prepares you for SPP, which is where the men are sorted from the boys.
Everything in life is goal dependent. Everything a traditional American Sport Athlete does outside of their field, court or track is going to be GPP. Period. One thing I do like that Buddy Morris told me during my learning time at Pitt is that everything that takes place in this weightroom for my players is GPP. If you understand that, then you can seperate the GPP work for your athletes in the weightroom and SPP work that will take place on the field.

Where we overlap on this principle is that irongame sports like olympic weightlifting or strongman , is that the weightroom is the sport. The SPP for an olympic weightlifting might be simply improving their front squat due to their third pull being so efficient they are able to pull themselves under a weight they can not stand up with. So SPP for one is not SPP for another. Everything must individualized and properly planned out. Like Jay's point with the main page if you don't establish goals and fundamental principles for the athletes then chaos ensues. Which is why crossfit , whether unfairly or not gets little respect with high level strength coaches becasue crossift doesn't account for variable change or provide any structure to someone who does more than crossfit. Can individuals be strong doing crossfit? Absolutely. But way too many who do crossfit aren't nearly as strong as they can be, without having to sacrifice too much metcon. Or many of the stronger guys who crossfit come from another discipline and are strong from other means not just crossfit.

Like the new world's strongest crossfitter, Pat Mendes
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Old 09-02-2010, 08:54 PM   #40
Damon Stewart
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Re: CF as a strength and conditioning program?

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Originally Posted by Jay Ashman View Post
until a structured strength program is in place on the mainpage, the higher ups did not address it.

by having PL certs and the CFJ journals isn't addressing it, programming proper strength days with logical progression is.
What's the logical progression of the Conjugate method?

Or at Pain & Chaos, one of my favorite lifting sites, what's the logical progression?

It seems like intermediate & advanced athletes don't always follow as linear a template as the 5x5 crowd would like to believe. Not knocking you Jay, just curious what you mean by logical.
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