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Old 09-17-2012, 07:21 PM   #601
Bob Cieszkowski
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Well if Anthos operates anything like Bain you should be very concerned (if you care at all about the continued existence of CrossFit).

As usual Taibbi does a great job of laying things out: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...quity-20120829 (wfs)
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:47 PM   #602
Chris Mason
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lowry View Post
Explain how it's negative without using false assumptions that have yet to be proven. At this point give them props for being more professional acting than the filth slinging HQ law team is doing. I'm not favoring either side, but find the unproven animosity funny. But hey I find it funny links on this site must be wfs, but the stuff posted on main site has suggestive nudity and vids with horrendous language. I'm easily amused I guess.
I have multiple times. Nice answer to my question.

How is an unproven assumption false by the way? That is a nonsensical statement. An unproven assumption may prove to be either true or false.

Of course my thoughts are presumptions based upon my understanding (from people who have worked with such firms) of what private equity firms do. They never, to my knowledge, buy a 50% stake in a company and make zero changes to said company. In fact, it is the norm for private equity firms to make significant changes which are geared towards jacking up profitability (especially in the short term) in order to drive up value and allow them to cash out relatively quickly with a significant ROI (my understanding is 5X investment is a kind of norm).

I would say that ANY financial analyst would tell you that it is naive to believe that such a firm would buy a 50% stake and not try to enact significant changes.

In my opinion, changes would be a negative for CrossFit affiliates. The affiliates currently enjoy unprecedentedly low fees from the parent company and the ability to retain virtually all of their profits along with almost no requirements made of them. It is an amazing model for the affiliates and one that as an affiliate I sure as heck would not want changed.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:40 AM   #603
Aaron Lengel
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Holmes View Post
OR MAYBE, and I'm just spit-balling here, they see Crossfit as a hugely successful business and a tremendous investment opportunity since someone is trying to sell half the company. If I had $20 million to throw around, I'd be knocking down doors to invest in Crossfit too.
But my question is still, why Crossfit? As has been said many times in this discussion, which sadly I've followed from the beginning, Crossfit does not want Anthos! Whether you agree with their tactics or not Crossfit HQ, including the founder Greg Glassman, and a number of prominent affiliates have said many times in many different ways they're not interested. Nathan, that's fact. So how does Anthos take partial ownership of a company that doesn't want to work with them and what becomes their goal? To get Crossfit to like them and play nice? It doesn't make logical sense to me unless there is a hidden agenda.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:44 AM   #604
Aaron Lengel
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

PS Nathan... It may be coincidence, but I find it ironic that you join the board in June posting comments questioning Crossfit's tactics and just so happen to be quoted in court documents.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:44 AM   #605
Nathan Holmes
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Aaron Lengel View Post
PS Nathan... It may be coincidence, but I find it ironic that you join the board in June posting comments questioning Crossfit's tactics and just so happen to be quoted in court documents.
Sorry if I was too busy protecting your freedom, including your poorly-used right to free speech, to post on a message board for the past few years.

You, Mr. Aaron Lengel (clearly a made up name), joined the message board in May 2010, shortly before Anthos first approached Crossfit about investing. Clearly you are a plant by Anthos, sent here to make ridiculous claims and non-sensical arguments in an attempt to weaken Crossfit and make us look incompetent. Next, you draw attention off yourself by pointing to me as the mole. Although you are very good at your job, your efforts will ultimately fail.

Just kidding man. But see how ridiculous your insinuation sounds?

P.S. If you still need convincing, here's my picture was on the mainsite a few years ago.

http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004947.html

Link is safe for work, home, and family, but not conspiracy theorists. They're always watching.

Last edited by Nathan Holmes; 09-18-2012 at 07:09 AM..
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:03 AM   #606
Nathan Holmes
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Cieszkowski View Post
Well if Anthos operates anything like Bain you should be very concerned (if you care at all about the continued existence of CrossFit).
Well, so far, Anthos doesn't appear to be too much like Bain. Different size, different investment strategy, different portfolio, different track record, different fund pool, different name. Other than that, its the exact same.

As I said before:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Holmes View Post
I don't know whether or not Ms. Jenai will be allotted a full 50% of Crossfit in the proceeding. I don't know whether or not she will be allowed to sell them and, if so, to Anthos. If Anthos purchases them, I don't know whether they will have a positive, neutral, or negative effect. The point is, neither do you (or anyone else, for that matter). We have to let the lawyers do their job and make our decision based on the outcome.
Edit: According to Anthos website, one special limited partner, Chip Adams, was a founder of a predecessor of Bain. So Anthos and a predecessor of Bain do have one person in common. I still don't think the sky is falling yet. And even if it were, posting on here about it wouldn't stop it.

http://www.anthoscapital.com/people1.html#adams (SFW)

Last edited by Nathan Holmes; 09-18-2012 at 07:08 AM..
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:22 AM   #607
Todd Morgan
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Chris,

After reading bits of incorrect information many times by you on this forum and others I feel compelled offer this:

1) This 5 times ROI that you continue to claim that VC's seek is complete and utter nonsense. This is simply not true. It can't be true as the Law of Large Numbers prohibits it. There are no where near enough good ideas on the entire Globe for this to be true

2) The VAST majority VC's are PASSIVE investors. It makes little sense for them to do otherwise.

BTW: I've worked in Finance, Trading and Capital Markets my entire professional life. If you have any sincere question in terms in VC's or Capital Markets I'd happy to tap into my almost 30 years of experience and answer them for you.

Best,
Todd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
I have multiple times. Nice answer to my question.

How is an unproven assumption false by the way? That is a nonsensical statement. An unproven assumption may prove to be either true or false.

Of course my thoughts are presumptions based upon my understanding (from people who have worked with such firms) of what private equity firms do. They never, to my knowledge, buy a 50% stake in a company and make zero changes to said company. In fact, it is the norm for private equity firms to make significant changes which are geared towards jacking up profitability (especially in the short term) in order to drive up value and allow them to cash out relatively quickly with a significant ROI (my understanding is 5X investment is a kind of norm).

I would say that ANY financial analyst would tell you that it is naive to believe that such a firm would buy a 50% stake and not try to enact significant changes.

In my opinion, changes would be a negative for CrossFit affiliates. The affiliates currently enjoy unprecedentedly low fees from the parent company and the ability to retain virtually all of their profits along with almost no requirements made of them. It is an amazing model for the affiliates and one that as an affiliate I sure as heck would not want changed.
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:28 AM   #608
John Mallon
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Lengel View Post
PS Nathan... It may be coincidence, but I find it ironic that you join the board in June posting comments questioning Crossfit's tactics and just so happen to be quoted in court documents.
The word you're looking for is, in fact, "coincidence." Your example is like raaaaaaiiiinn on your wedding day...like a free ride when you've already paid...

Nathan Holmes: your well-reasoned, rational thinking - a far more difficult to obtain yet useful skill than muscle ups - is a welcome breath of fresh air among all the knee-jerk vilification that's become a hallmark of this discussion. It's like we've entered the McCarthyism era of Crossfit, where anyone presenting a cogent argument against the FUD is automatically branded an Anthosist.

I agree, the change could be good or bad. The point is, we do not know which. It may represent a paradigm shift in CF's evolution. It may be business as usual. Who knows? It is, for better or worse, in the hands of a judge, not in those of commenters in a forum.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:10 AM   #609
Mark Lamoree
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Anthos is a venture capital firm. Venture capital firms work by either investing in start-ups, encouraging their growth, and selling their stake at a profit, or by coming in to an established company, revising their structure and business practices, and selling their stake at a profit. In some cases, venture capital firms will hold on to part of a profitable company and collect the profits.
In all those cases, the goal of a venture capital firm is to increase the profitability of the firms in which they invest. As Chris Mason noted, the goal is often short-term, rather than long-haul, profitability. (This attitude is endemic in the business world.)
Venture capital firms, by their nature, have no interest in anything other than profit. They are not motivated by love of Crossfit, by dedication to maintaining what Glassman has created, by affection for the affiliates, and are certainly not motivated by dedication to CF's or Glassman's vision.
We also know that Glassman has emphatically rejected Anthos' approaches, and has indicated that he is afraid that Anthos will turn Crossfit into a vehicle for selling supplements and other high-profit items. Since he's at the epicenter of all this, I'm going to presume that he has more knowledge about what Anthos has planned than we do.
Given all of that, I'd say that skepticism is justified.
Even if skepticism is not justified, the fact remains that Glassman, who created Crossfit, and who remains at its heart, wants nothing to do with Anthos. Even if the fears about Anthos' plans are specious, that would be enough for me to oppose the take over.

On a slightly different note to Nathan Holmes: I'm glad that you serve. So do I. So do many of the people here. Crossfit has many, many adherents among military people, firefighters and police. And the fact that many of us do those sorts of jobs have nothing whatsoever to do with the validity of our arguments.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:24 PM   #610
Nathan Holmes
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Mark Lamoree View Post
Even if the fears about Anthos' plans are specious, that would be enough for me to oppose the take over.
It's not a takeover; its 50%. It's a partnership; very different from a majority or minority stake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lamoree View Post
to Nathan Holmes: I'm glad that you serve. So do I. So do many of the people here. Crossfit has many, many adherents among military people, firefighters and police. And the fact that many of us do those sorts of jobs have nothing whatsoever to do with the validity of our arguments.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I neither said nor implied that anyone's service, or lack thereof, had anything to do with the validity of their arguments.

Last edited by Nathan Holmes; 09-18-2012 at 01:26 PM..
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