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Old 07-29-2014, 07:50 PM   #1711
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: 2014 CrossFit Open, Regionals, and Games Thread

I would have liked to see Thick&Quick as 3 rounds and WTH, heavier Grace of 155/185 and 115/135 for the gals. Just brutalize'm I say.

That was the only event I actually got to see.

I don't think not having a 1rm DL is detrimental in the Games, just need some judges to not white light ****ty lifts.

It would have been nice to see a heavy WOD with something like a yoke walk. I didn't get to see the PushPull (though it sounded neat with deficit HSPU) or SprintCarry. My guess is that not a lot of them sprinted the 100 after the carry.
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:34 PM   #1712
Dare Vodusek
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Re: 2014 CrossFit Open, Regionals, and Games Thread

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Originally Posted by Andrew Bell View Post
No where on there is there a skill. Now with double unders you can argue that you must use Coordination. Which is true. The same must be used when building a house with a deck of cards.
Jumping rope is one of the most efficient exercises available. In one study they found out it improves bone density even more than lifting weights in eldery people.
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:47 PM   #1713
Desmond Pegrum
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Re: 2014 CrossFit Open, Regionals, and Games Thread

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Originally Posted by Dakota Base View Post
Y

A discrepancy like you've mentioned actually DID happen a few years ago (ok, more than a few). At one point in time, Micheal Johnson had the "world's fastest man" title which he earned during his 200m world record based on instantaneous speed - hit AFTER a distance of 100m, whereas at that time the world record for 100m was held by Maurice Greene and Donovan Bailey (and I think maybe another few fellas, since Johnson's speed record stood for something like 12yrs).
t.
Yeah Michael Johnson and Donovan Bailey had that 150 m battle afterwards (obviously mainly for the money), Bailey was leading and going to win so Johnson feigned injury to save face

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFcjJezL7lo save for work
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Old 07-30-2014, 12:50 AM   #1714
Doug Lantz
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Re: 2014 CrossFit Open, Regionals, and Games Thread

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Originally Posted by Luke Sirakos View Post
It is still incredibly subjective because Crossfit is not the authority on what defines fitness, there is no such authority. Even then, the games do not even find the fittest person based on HQ's definition because there is so much skill work involved as well. It isn't a knock on Crossfit or anyone, the games just find the best Crossfitter and that is a much better way of putting it.
I'd like to see the Games champions announced the same way as the British Open (golf) champion is

"The champion crossfitter of 2014, Rich Froning"
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Old 07-30-2014, 12:53 AM   #1715
Doug Lantz
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Re: 2014 CrossFit Open, Regionals, and Games Thread

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Originally Posted by Blair Robert Lowe View Post
I would have liked to see Thick&Quick as 3 rounds and WTH, heavier Grace of 155/185 and 115/135 for the gals. Just brutalize'm I say.

That was the only event I actually got to see.

I don't think not having a 1rm DL is detrimental in the Games, just need some judges to not white light ****ty lifts.

It would have been nice to see a heavy WOD with something like a yoke walk. I didn't get to see the PushPull (though it sounded neat with deficit HSPU) or SprintCarry. My guess is that not a lot of them sprinted the 100 after the carry.
Actually no one "sprinted" even on the first 100 and the athletes that finished the first 100 first finished the entire event last.

I don't have any examples to cite, twas just my subjective observation sitting near the middle of the field.
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:36 AM   #1716
Mario Beltran
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Re: 2014 CrossFit Open, Regionals, and Games Thread

The hole fitness definition thing doesn't lead to anything. It's good for marketing purposes. We all know that Crossfit is not perfect, I still have lots of fun doing it and watching the Games.

Cody Anderson was great, but I don't think that he will be able to put on 20lbs easily and be as good as he was. If next years Regionals are biased in another direction, he probably won't even make it to Games. Nonetheless, really impressive what he put up.

Lucas Parker looked horrible in EVERY event, exept the OHS single. For me it was either sickness or overtraining. Sometimes, e.g. in the 21-15-9 complex, he even looked like he didn't care at all. Really dissapointing, I looked forward to see him compete.

I thought the team events were rather strange this year. No team was really dominating. Norcal had a lot of really bad events and still managed to be 5th and in the race for the win until the end. The Big Bob was horrible to watch. Just look at Brick Crossfit in the last event. They weren't able to move it AT ALL in the last 10 minutes. The Beach event was laughable I found.
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Old 07-30-2014, 04:50 AM   #1717
Christopher Murphy
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Re: 2014 CrossFit Open, Regionals, and Games Thread

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Originally Posted by Harrison Holtz View Post
It's tough to continue this point without coming off as an a-hole, so after this i promise i'm done.... if it really were as simple as that work equation, then failing 3 cleans quickly would be more valuable than completing two slowly, as you would get more total work in. The CrossFit games yes in some aspects measures work, in addition to some skills that are very specific to CrossFit and being a good CrossFiter. If you do 20 butterfly pullups in the time i do 19 strict, hands down you're a better CrossFiter because you beat me in the event. But i'm not so sure you're more fit.

But then again.... CrossFit probably knows what they're doing. They love being the topic of debate, and anyone who argues against CrossFit being the fittest is one more person talking about CrossFit.
If you fail the lift, you did not move the weight within the full range of motion, so it's a no rep. Doesn't matter how quickly you do it.
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Old 07-30-2014, 04:51 AM   #1718
Drew Cloutier
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Re: 2014 CrossFit Open, Regionals, and Games Thread

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Originally Posted by Tommy Sittinger View Post
This is true. It's currently the best way to determine the most well-rounded athlete.

But, there could be an even better way to do it - scale points for gymnsatic movements to body weight, and also scale weighted movements to body weight.

For example, consider Cindy. One athlete weighs 165#, and the other weighs 210#. The first one does 32 rounds, and the second one does 29 rounds. The latter athlete clearly had a higher overall work output, and should score higher. The body weight advantage for the first athlete is nullified.

Next, these two both do Grace. The 165# guy does it in 1:50, and the 210# guy does it in 1:35. Who wins? The 165# person is using 82% of body weight, and the 210# person is only using 65% of body weight. If you scale the load based on body weight, the lighter athlete would win. This negates the advantage of the larger, more muscular athlete.

I think that the above methods would more accurately test for the "fittest" athlete. Another question: If my 100 burpee time is 6:10 @215#, and I repeat 100 burpees at a future date in 6:10 while weighing 225#, am I not more fit than I was previously?
This is sounding a lot like a small guy or not so strong guy trying to take advantages away from certain events for certain persons without giving up any advantages that lighter/smaller athletes have in their events...

This would also in effect make crossfit take steps back, as everyone would try to stay small/less strong on purpose, to try to get an advantage.

If anything I feel the heavier weights are where things get settled, as pretty much everyone can finish a 10K run for example, albeit not all in great times, its different than having a triplet with a heavy barbell move where if you don't/can't lift it you just don't finish, case in point 2013's Cinco 1, I loved that event because it had many components to it. If you were great at handstand walking but sucked at DL it didn't matter because you had to get through those DL's aka you had to be well rounded.

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Originally Posted by Dakota Base View Post
What you're really presenting is a "pound for pound" fitness, and frankly, that's so variable, it'd be impossible to regulate. Strength numbers do not follow a linear scaling factor, take a look at power lifting records, Olympic lifting records, or even published strength standards like the Rippetoe & Kilgore tables. The lightest guys and the heaviest guys tend to be at a "pound for pound" disadvantage, while there's a "sweet spot" in the middle for a certain frame size and body weight - not too far off from the "standard" crossfit body size - for "pound for pound" proportionate strength.

But that's only considering pound for pound strength in terms of raw strength capacity. It's not considering body SHAPE. If you consider say, gymnastics movements, athletes of a certain body type or frame proportion can give up significant numbers in pound for pound strength and HUGE numbers in raw strength but still have an advantage biomechanically. You hear it all the time in different circles that long or short arms or legs are an advantage or disadvantage for different lifts or movements. Relatively speaking, it makes sense, a 6'1" 165lb man is likely to be far weaker than a 5'7" 165lb man, even if the two have equivalent muscle/fat ratios.

Considering those complications, in a comprehensive contest like the Games, it's impossible to scale based on bodyweight in any intelligent way.

Frankly, the Games, in my opinion, does a good job of using standardized movements in a random enough method to promote consistency, but still be variant. I enjoyed the block-drive in last years Games, which isn't really a technical skill, but really isn't a pure feat of strength either - but a fantastic gauge of overall fitness, and with a twist that instead of the "wood splitter" downward swing like a med-ball slam, it offered a variation of "tree chopping" that might not have been in any athlete's training program. I was sad to not see a unique event like that in the Games this year.

I did, however, feel like some of the events, and especially the coverage, were aimed at selling certain equipment to affiliates and athletes, as in how much they touted the sprint sled and big bob... Last year, it was the flipping "pig".

The Games has events where Khalipa has an advantage, some where Froning and Bailey have advantages, and where Troyan or Forte have an advantage... Average performance that exceeds that of the rest of the field is what wins the Games.

There's a reason why MetRx WSM or Stihl Timersports WC's are on at midnight a few months after it happened and why Crossfit Games are on LIVE. Too arbitrary and it loses relevancy. Regulated Crossfit could become a "decathlon" type event in the Olympics some day (although I don't believe it will - same deal with obstacle racing/mud racing). Carrying motorcycles, throwing kegs, or chopping logs will never be.
I take exception to this, WSM and other strongman events used to be on live plenty, just like Powerlifting competitions and Bodybuilding competitions used to be live on TV as well these were broadcast world wide I believe. Just so happens people are fickle, and broadcasting companies are idiots and sell outs who'd rather have bowling, darts, poker and curling on TV than strength sports, so strongman declined in showings on TV to running comps way later, to then running pretty much nothing but re-runs almost (speaking of North America) every night. As far as I know strongman competitions aren't streamed online either. ALSO Crossfit is pretty much only on live in the USA for TV, the rest of us resort to podcast and youtube...who knows if in 10-20yrs anyone will care about the games anymore either or if it might be pushed out of a TV slot, no offense but WSM has been around since 78' I believe and they were going steady for the longest time, and boom drop off in viewers or something and bam less TV time. Pro Wrestling is another example of a "sport" that started off with little money and made it HUGE, then hit some rocky spots, wrestling is nowhere near as popular as in the 80s and 90s, sports especially the less mainstream (i.e not hockey, football, etc) come and go in waves/cycles.

I will say crossfit has a better chance than strongman at maintaining its fan base/viewers.
1. the crossfit community as well as kool-aid drinkers
2. easier to sell to everyone, because you don't have to be 6'5 and 300lbs to participate, although they have come up with the 90kg and 105kg WSM as well.
3. they have a huge sponsor like reebok
4. boxes and courses make money for HQ year in year out.
5. Sex sells, how many women drool over the dudes at the games, and how many dudes won't shut up about Camille or a slew of other games women. Generally speaking you don't get that in strongman, or PL, or WL or BB. I mean in each of these there are people who are CRAZY about that kind of physique, but the % world wide of people attracted is smaller.
6. As we've seen its also a sport where many guys who couldn't hack it elsewhere go to, look at the games how many guys were ex football, or ex something, people always love having a 2nd chance.

adding to that I also don't think Crossfit will never be in the olympics, especially not the way it is, but not even if they made big changes, the thing also is that I think the majority of the crossfit community and HQ would fight these changes, no one at HQ really wants the same exact events year in year out, but they would need standardised events to be eligible for the olympics, not to mention Rogue would either not always be the main supplier for the equipment OR they would have to pay some wicked fee to the olympics.

The one thing I would like that would come about that though is major crossfit competitions would finally be held outside of the USA AND each country would have to have a proper National Championship competition, you'd also not be able to do 3-5 days of events at the olympics most likely, so you'd REALLY have to pick and chose which events stayed, yet another reason I don't see HQ wanting to.

At this stage PL has a better chance at making it to the Olympics than crossfit and they are still a ways away.

I also think you would possibly see performances drop for the first couple seasons once olympic level drug testing was implemented, but that's my opinion.
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:58 AM   #1719
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: 2014 CrossFit Open, Regionals, and Games Thread

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Originally Posted by Mario Beltran View Post
Cody Anderson was great, but I don't think that he will be able to put on 20lbs easily and be as good as he was. If next years Regionals are biased in another direction, he probably won't even make it to Games. Nonetheless, really impressive what he put up.
I think this was a common opinion four years about a young lady from Canada who this year went on to win the whole thing.

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Old 07-30-2014, 07:15 AM   #1720
Mario Beltran
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Re: 2014 CrossFit Open, Regionals, and Games Thread

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Originally Posted by Mark E. Wallace View Post
I think this was a common opinion four years about a young lady from Canada who this year went on to win the whole thing.

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Maybe. It's just my opinion, that it isn't that easy. I guess we'll see.
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