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Old 10-04-2013, 12:13 PM   #41
Dare Vodusek
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Re: 28 days in ketosis

Because carbs gets digested a lot faster than fats. Carb from white rice can be in our blood ~30mins after eating a meal, and if thats 700kcal, where will all that energy go if glycogen is full?
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:24 PM   #42
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: 28 days in ketosis

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
Because carbs gets digested a lot faster than fats. Carb from white rice can be in our blood ~30mins after eating a meal, and if thats 700kcal, where will all that energy go if glycogen is full?
Some big assumptions, like glycogen being full after sleeping for 7-9 hours. A cup of rice cooked isn't 700 cal either, more like 350. Dry rice is 700 per cup. Anyway, even if carbs are digested more quickly fat has less thermogenic effect. All things being equal, it would be easier to overeat fat than carbs if whole foods are being used. If you are talking about cheese to twinkies though, it could be a bit easier to over eat the twinkies. I don't know. It is one of those issues that is complex because personal tastes and behaviors can play a role too. Anyway, if you love pigging out on carbs I see your point. I don't however and find reducing fat intake is an easier way to manage my intake and I am not fat.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:39 PM   #43
Dare Vodusek
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Re: 28 days in ketosis

I thought carbs and fats have similar thermogenic effect, 5-15%?
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:43 PM   #44
Todd Neal
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Re: 28 days in ketosis

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I am no expert Todd, but I suspect much of the problems we experience with hormones become due to A) being inactive and B) once you get fat a whole host of bad things start happening. Insulin in my humble opinion is catching a bad wrap because people know it and since diabetics have problems with it and they tend to be overweight......ergo insulin is evil. No study to back that up but it seems to be a common them. If keto helps you lose weight great, but I reserve the belief it isn't the only way.
To me it comes back to a chicken or egg stance, which is to say, is being fat a symptom or a cause? I believe it's a symptom, one that's potentially caused by metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance.

If you look 50 years ago when people weren't overeating and you ask "what happened?" you might hear something like, "portion sizes got bigger so people started overeating." But I'd argue that the appetite got bigger before portions did, thus the need for larger portions. So what caused increased appetite?

The other way I like to look at it is a way Taubes uses; when a young boy is growing, he's overeating because of a hormone imbalance, but in adults, we reverse that idea for some reason; when an adult man is growing, his hormones are imbalanced because of overeating. It doesn't make sense to do this.

Inactivity could go the same way; we know that active people burn more calories than sedentary, so if everything were in balance, sedentary people would just eat less. But the imbalance comes first, causing sedentary people to overeat.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:43 PM   #45
Darryl Shaw
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Re: 28 days in ketosis

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Why good would it be from carbs in the morning where there is no need for such a high energy source? Like white rice can flush glucose in blood at a very high rate and since our glycogen is most likely full and body is no need for it since we are no higly active...where will it go? Fat deposits. Same happens with fruit in the morning...

Imagine it like pouring nitro into car's tank while you driving 50mph in a traffic jam...useless waste of energy
A 70 kg male can store up to 1000g of glycogen, so for most people eating a typical mixed diet glycogen stores are never anywhere near being full. That's why you only ever see evidence of de novo lipogenesis in overfeeding studies where people are fed massive amounts of simple sugars.

And the reason we benefit from a high carb breakfast is simple - it begins the process of topping up liver glycogen stores following the overnight fast.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:49 PM   #46
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Re: 28 days in ketosis

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A 70 kg male can store up to 1000g of glycogen
I was under the impression that most people can store 100-120g of glycogen in the liver and another 300-350g in muscle. Where does the other 500g come from?
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:50 PM   #47
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Re: 28 days in ketosis

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I am no expert Todd, but I suspect much of the problems we experience with hormones become due to A) being inactive and B) once you get fat a whole host of bad things start happening.
What if B is backwards? What if the high sugar content, low amount of micro nutrients and low food quality causes the hormone issues (whatever they may be) which then causes the fat gain and over eating?
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:53 PM   #48
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Re: 28 days in ketosis

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What if B is backwards? What if the high sugar content, low amount of micro nutrients and low food quality causes the hormone issues (whatever they may be) which then causes the fat gain and over eating?
I could get on board with that. I think that quality of your foods is more important that it seems on the surface. I don't see many people who stick to whole or mostly whole foods that are overweight. I myself try and limit things that have ingredients that aren't whole in nature. Certainly low levels of micro nutrients are harmful but whole foods are full of them! Thus it makes sense to encourage their consumption. I see the Attia in what you wrote.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:54 PM   #49
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Re: 28 days in ketosis

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What if B is backwards? What if the high sugar content, low amount of micro nutrients and low food quality causes the hormone issues (whatever they may be) which then causes the fat gain and over eating?
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:54 PM   #50
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Re: 28 days in ketosis

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I thought carbs and fats have similar thermogenic effect, 5-15%?
99/100 for fats and 74/100 for carbs.
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