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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 07-06-2011, 11:56 AM   #11
Todd Rehm
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Re: Would you consider the following information accurate?

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Originally Posted by Matt Haxmeier View Post
Gallon of Nachos a Day

A good plate of nachos has tons of protein, fat, and carbohydrates. And they're usually pretty reasonably priced per calorie.

Just make sure they put meat on them, and get the sour cream and guac, and make sure sure they have real cheese instead of "cheese sauce" or "cheese food" or some crap like that.
Gallon of winning a day.
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:11 PM   #12
David Meverden
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Re: Would you consider the following information accurate?

My advice to you Bryce: Stick mainly to basics that have been proven effective in the field and don't get too confident about theories that sound good, but don't really have much to back them. Lots of people will throw around with a lot of certainty things about thermogenic effects, lipid metabolism, meal frequency, insulin effects, meal timing, etc that are, at best, lacking in evidence and, at worst, detrimental to progress.

Your paragraph on metabolism is an example. Studies like THIS one (WFS) and reviews of studies like THIS one (WFS) show that the effect is small if it exists at all and not worthy of being presented as a written in stone superior practice. Small frequent meals might help curb hunger but if that is what you are after don't try to mystify or impress with lots of sciency sounding smoke and mirrors.

Stick to the basics first: Hard work, real whole body exercises (squats, deadlift, bench, press) and a wholesome diet. Don't be the skinny trainer who talks all about the latest supplement scheme for perfect post workout muscle protein synthesis but can't show someone how to squat properly.
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:25 PM   #13
Seth Leaman
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Re: Would you consider the following information accurate?

^^Agree with David. Meal frequency is pretty irrelevant aside from you personal preference.

ALso, lol at not being able to eat hamburgers(meat and bread), chips(potatoes and oil), or sugar while losing weight.
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:59 PM   #14
Bryce Horrell
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Re: Would you consider the following information accurate?

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Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
My advice to you Bryce: Stick mainly to basics that have been proven effective in the field and don't get too confident about theories that sound good, but don't really have much to back them. Lots of people will throw around with a lot of certainty things about thermogenic effects, lipid metabolism, meal frequency, insulin effects, meal timing, etc that are, at best, lacking in evidence and, at worst, detrimental to progress.

Your paragraph on metabolism is an example. Studies like THIS one (WFS) and reviews of studies like THIS one (WFS) show that the effect is small if it exists at all and not worthy of being presented as a written in stone superior practice. Small frequent meals might help curb hunger but if that is what you are after don't try to mystify or impress with lots of sciency sounding smoke and mirrors.

Stick to the basics first: Hard work, real whole body exercises (squats, deadlift, bench, press) and a wholesome diet. Don't be the skinny trainer who talks all about the latest supplement scheme for perfect post workout muscle protein synthesis but can't show someone how to squat properly.
Hey. I appreciate the reply.

I guess my recently matured thoughts on the subject are:

Fatloss by maintaining current calories VS fatloss by cutting calories.

When I think of fatloss I consider all audiences. A retired power lifter who wants to lose a small belly but maintain his muscle mass or an obese woman who has lots and lots of fat. If both of them came to you and wanted to lose fat, what would you do? Cut calories or maintain? Would you prescribe the same for both of them?

Last edited by Bryce Horrell : 07-06-2011 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:39 PM   #15
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Would you consider the following information accurate?

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Originally Posted by Bryce Horrell View Post
Fatloss by maintaining current calories VS fatloss by cutting calories.

When I think of fatloss I consider all audiences. A retired power lifter who wants to lose a small belly but maintain his muscle mass or an obese woman who has lots and lots of fat. If both of them came to you and wanted to lose fat, what would you do? Cut calories or maintain? Would you prescribe the same for both of them?
Fat loss is impossible without a calorie deficit. You can create that deficit by eating less, exercising more, or both, but it has to be there.

For that reason, I don't think it's possible to prescribe a diet for either the former powerlifter or the obese woman without knowing what activity they're doing *now.*

For example, many people post here who started Crossfit, put themselves on an extremely restrictive diet, and discovered within a couple of weeks that they simply weren't eating enough and had no energy. If the obese woman starts Crossfitting, she may need to eat *more* than she did in her previous sedentary life, even if her goal is to lose fat. If the former powerlifter sits on the couch most of the time now, it will be very hard to lose weight unless he eats substantially less than he did while competing.

Katherine
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:42 PM   #16
David Meverden
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Re: Would you consider the following information accurate?

Are you asking if I would try to increase energy expenditures or if I would try to reduce caloric intake? If you are a trainer then increasing their caloric expenditures should basically be a given (unless they were working out effectively before, but if they were why would they hire you?).

So that just leaves whether or not you should try to restrict calories. Well, there's a saying around here to the effect of: "You can't out train a poor diet" meaning that it's unlikely you'll be able to get the physical changes you want if you only change the exercise you do. Of course what kind of diet is appropriate depends on goals, current condition, genetics, age, etc.

Generally speaking, the muscly guy probably doesn't need to restrict calories that much, whereas the obese woman will. I'd try to get the woman on a 30 day paleo challenge. It would give her a very clear goal, a start, an end, and some quick results to help build up her motivation to keep improving. I would give her guidelines for the kinds of meals she should put together (veggies at every meal, quality meat, etc) but leave quantity up to her and let her know that if she is hungry she should eat. The vast majority of people will automatically reduce caloric intake on a paleo diet and facilitate weight loss while not having to feel hungry and while maintaining good energy (I find that when I have a lower carbohydrate paleo type diet I don't get sleepy after meals and I get hungry more gradually that when eating lots of carbohydrates--especially refined carbs. My energy is more steady). I also like lower carbohydrate food choices for weight loss because they may help of the lost weight to come from fat and less from muscle (several studies have shown this, though not as large of one's as I'd like).

I'd compliment this with high intensity crossfit style metcon work, some pure lifting, and probably some mono-structural stuff (running, biking, rowing, etc. Probably high intensity, though maybe mix in some occasional slower stuff. If I want low intensity work to burn calories maybe prescribe a morning walk or something. I've heard some good things about "fasted walking", though I'm a little skeptical about the validity of the explanation used).

That's my 2 cents. You can see more perspectives over on the nutrition board.

P.S. Katherine brings up good points too. Have to evaluate what they do now.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:54 PM   #17
Bryce Horrell
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Thumbs up Re: Would you consider the following information accurate?

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Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
Are you asking if I would try to increase energy expenditures or if I would try to reduce caloric intake? If you are a trainer then increasing their caloric expenditures should basically be a given (unless they were working out effectively before, but if they were why would they hire you?).

So that just leaves whether or not you should try to restrict calories. Well, there's a saying around here to the effect of: "You can't out train a poor diet" meaning that it's unlikely you'll be able to get the physical changes you want if you only change the exercise you do. Of course what kind of diet is appropriate depends on goals, current condition, genetics, age, etc.

Generally speaking, the muscly guy probably doesn't need to restrict calories that much, whereas the obese woman will. I'd try to get the woman on a 30 day paleo challenge. It would give her a very clear goal, a start, an end, and some quick results to help build up her motivation to keep improving. I would give her guidelines for the kinds of meals she should put together (veggies at every meal, quality meat, etc) but leave quantity up to her and let her know that if she is hungry she should eat. The vast majority of people will automatically reduce caloric intake on a paleo diet and facilitate weight loss while not having to feel hungry and while maintaining good energy (I find that when I have a lower carbohydrate paleo type diet I don't get sleepy after meals and I get hungry more gradually that when eating lots of carbohydrates--especially refined carbs. My energy is more steady). I also like lower carbohydrate food choices for weight loss because they may help of the lost weight to come from fat and less from muscle (several studies have shown this, though not as large of one's as I'd like).

I'd compliment this with high intensity crossfit style metcon work, some pure lifting, and probably some mono-structural stuff (running, biking, rowing, etc. Probably high intensity, though maybe mix in some occasional slower stuff. If I want low intensity work to burn calories maybe prescribe a morning walk or something. I've heard some good things about "fasted walking", though I'm a little skeptical about the validity of the explanation used).

That's my 2 cents. You can see more perspectives over on the nutrition board.

P.S. Katherine brings up good points too. Have to evaluate what they do now.

Excelent discussion! I love this website.

I am thinking about creating a thread with some hypothetical characters who have certain goals in fitness. The idea is to coach them. It should be good practice and good discussion. You guys should definitely reply in the thread!!

P.S. David, I write with the fancy vocabulary because I am studying for my CSCS exam and I am trying to reinforce those terms I have learned by using them alot. I figure it will help with my exam.

Last edited by Bryce Horrell : 07-06-2011 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:55 AM   #18
Sam Ser
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Re: Would you consider the following information accurate?

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Originally Posted by Bryce Horrell View Post
I am thinking about creating a thread with some hypothetical characters who have certain goals in fitness. The idea is to coach them. It should be good practice and good discussion. You guys should definitely reply in the thread!!
the crossfit journal did a series of these a while back. it was called "you be the trainer," or something like that. it's worth checking out before you start the thread you're planning.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:14 PM   #19
David Meverden
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Re: Would you consider the following information accurate?

Another thing you can do is find new or old threads where people are asking questions about their training or diet. Decide what you would recommend, then after you've thought about it read the comments and compare to what other people have said. If they recommend something different find out why. Is it a difference in viewpoint? A different interpretation of research? Different sources of information? Does someone you disagree with have information you hadn't considered? Are they not considering information you have?

I occasionally do something similar on the digital coaching forum: watch a video and come up with critiques for someone's snatch, for instance, then see if those critiques line up with the comments by the experienced O-lifters and coaches.
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