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Old 09-14-2010, 01:17 PM   #1
Heath Powell
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Ketosis question

Talking with a buddy and neither of us came up with a quick answer to this question and I figured you crossfit smarties would know.

So under 50g of carbs per day for 2-4 days is usually enough to get most people into a ketogenic state right.

The question is that if you are not in ketosis and want to kick start it, can you go and do a longer workout that depletes your glycogen stores then post workout and going foward fuel your body with fat and protein and not replenish those carbs. Does that force you into a keto state more quickly?

Thanks guys.
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:23 PM   #2
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Ketosis question

I don't think so, because based on my understanding of ketosis it's not a matter of muscle glycogen levels (which can still be refilled by the liver even during ketosis)--it's a matter of a few enzymatic processes being switched on so that your body produces ketones for energy mobilization and starts burning stored bodyfat. I could be wrong though.
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Old 09-15-2010, 07:51 AM   #3
Heath Powell
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Re: Ketosis question

Man, it looks like you nailed it. I found a fourm post on another site addressing my question.
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:18 AM   #4
Jennifer Epps
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Re: Ketosis question

Check out this site. Search for Ketosis. He has a book on the subject.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com
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Old 09-15-2010, 07:41 PM   #5
Angela Huizenga
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Re: Ketosis question

Any ideas as to how long you should do ketosis? I've been eating under 100 carbs (40 of those in my post workout shake) for about 2-2.5 months. I saw dramatic changes in body composition during the first month, and for the past two months my measurements have been exactly the same, and I don't feel like I've lost any more fat. Think I should kick the carbs up for a bit and see what happens?

Its hard to say what's going on with my performance....I just got a bar and bumpers a month ago. Prior to this I was just doing body weight stuff.....the heaviest thing I had was a 40lb sandbag. My PRs haven't changed, but I don't think I should expect them to in a month. If I repeat a WOD, I almost always beat my time, or feel I am able to add more weight.

I'm a little hesitant to add more carbs for fear of gettin fluffy again....any thoughts? Thanks
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:53 PM   #6
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Ketosis question

Ketosis level is usually considered to be about 50g per day for men and 30g for women. Try cutting down a little more.

You say your PRs haven't gone up, then say your times are getting better. Are you seeing performance improvements or not? Are you eating enough protein and fat to support your activity and muscle growth?
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:37 AM   #7
Angela Huizenga
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Re: Ketosis question

Thanks for the reply eric.....I meant to say my PR's on lifts haven't improved, but I've only had the weights for a month....times have improved on the few WODs I've repeated in the last few months. So, yes I've seen improvement...just seems slow.

I logged my food intake on fitday for about a month and averaged around 1500-1700 calories a day. (I'm 5'1, 120ish). Fat was usually around 50%, protein 30% and carbs were 20%.

I don't think its possible for me to get under 50g of carbs on the days I work out. Reeeeaalllly don't want to give up my recovery shake, and that's 30 g.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:29 AM   #8
Greg Privitera
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Re: Ketosis question

Angela,

Carbs will not make you fluffy. They will fuel your brain and your efforts.

We just ran a month long body fat loss competition. Everyone improved their lifts (not uncommon for a 20lbs increase on a lower body lift, some even more.

The diet I prescribed everyone was as follows:

1g protein per pound lbm (1/4 of this in fast digesting form preworkout, 1/8 post workout).

120g carbs baseline (for rest days) + 20-50g fast digesting carbs preworkout based on type/length of workout and lbm).

1/2 gram of fat per pound of lbm, no less than 50g per day for anyone. Increase fat if you're losing too much weight or performance isn't improving.

2g EPA/dha for women, 3G for men

As close to 1 pound of fibrous vegetables per day as possible.

Choose paleo whenever possible but it was not required. Other carb sources reccomended were tubers, beans, wild rice, oatmeal. But nothing was restricted.

Weight loss over four weeks ranged from 10-18lbs for compliant men.

7-15lbs for compliant women.

Not a single person was allowed to eat low carb, quite a few finally started to lean out when adding carbs.

Do not fear the carb.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:52 AM   #9
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Ketosis question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela Huizenga View Post
Thanks for the reply eric.....I meant to say my PR's on lifts haven't improved, but I've only had the weights for a month....times have improved on the few WODs I've repeated in the last few months. So, yes I've seen improvement...just seems slow.

I logged my food intake on fitday for about a month and averaged around 1500-1700 calories a day. (I'm 5'1, 120ish). Fat was usually around 50%, protein 30% and carbs were 20%.

I don't think its possible for me to get under 50g of carbs on the days I work out. Reeeeaalllly don't want to give up my recovery shake, and that's 30 g.
Try eating more calories period--1500-1700 isn't much for an active person. The fact that you're not seeing lift PRs is a good sign you're not eating enough...as a novice lifter you should be seeing a PR pretty much every time you go in the gym.
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:39 PM   #10
Angela Huizenga
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Re: Ketosis question

thanks for the info.....

Greg....what is considered a "fast digesting" protein, and what's the time frame for pre-wod. 30 mins? an hour?

a pound of veggies?! good gravy.....reminds me of the days I was doing zone. I tried paleo zone for about 2 months, but I was doing really low fat, so maybe I'll put a little butter on my veggies this time around. Zone did nothing for me, and after I got off, I realized how much better I felt....less bloating, more energy, less ups and downs.

Eric, one more piece of info...I've been doing crossfit for about a year and a half. Took 3 months off at the beginning of this year due to work, then started at home with rower, body weight, pullup bar, rings, kettlebell, box, ab mat, jumprope. Just got a bar and plates last month. My lifts are almost exactly the same #'s as I had towards the end of last year (7-8mos after starting).
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