Paleo Ketosis

[Mike Ridgley]

I am wondering if there are any other CFERS that use the Paleo diet with more of a Ketosis approach? Listening to Robb Wolfs podcast, it is suggested that I stay at around >50g carbohydrates per day (un-weighed and un-measured). This is to allow the body to use fat for energy - this state being otherwise known as Ketosis.

Most all other Ketosis diets recommend >20 carbohydrates to be able to get into the Ketosis state.

I have the ketosticks and test for having some minor traces of ketones but not full blown ketosis.

Should I drop the carbs down to >20 and increase protein or fat intake? I feel that it it rather difficult to stay below 50 right now.

[Eric Montgomery]

Different bodies react differently--50g isn't a magic number, though that's the same carb range that Mark's Daily Apple recommends for ketosis. You may need to try staying near 20g per day for awhile to see how that works for you. Adjust it a little and see how things turn in with the ketosticks and with how you feel in general. How long have you been at 50g? Remember it takes a while for your body to make the full adjustment to go ketogenic.

[Ed Walto]

Mike,

What are your goals? Weight loss, increased muscle mass or a combo of both. I'm a bit confused with your last thought. You wonder if going under 20 carbs is worth it, but your having trouble getting under 50. I have experimented with both and for me, once I enter Ketosis I feel sluggish and weak. I have been doing paleo zone and I feel better now than ever. I started with a relatively low BF % (11%) and am down to 8% or so without changing any WODS.

My suggestion is to experiment with it. Try one way for 6 weeks or so and document how you feel. If you like the results stick with it, if not make a change and repeat process. Good Luck!

[Mike Ridgley]

I have been doing this for about three weeks now. At first, energy levels were WAY down but I feel like they are coming back up.

My goals are body comp (fat Loss) thus the reason for ditching the carbs.

I guess I was getting conflicting info between the amount of carbs necessary to enter into a keto sate. Looks like I will just keep dropping them until ketosis is in full force.

Also - has anyone used a ramp-up period? By this i mean, getting more fat rather than protein intitally (2-3 days) then once ketosis kicks in move more to protein and lower the fat - all while keeping carbs >50

BTW - this diet sucks for a beer-lover! Guess I wouldn't be in this situation if it wasn't for all those IPA's.

[Adam Acosta]

How do you know how many carbs you're taking in each day without measuring your food in some way?

[Mike Ridgley]

Originally Posted by Adam Acosta

How do you know how many carbs you're taking in each day without measuring your food in some way?

I know that I would have to eat a mound of Broccoli to measure any significant carb count. With that said, I only eat standard portions of my veggies with each meal. Another favorite is Brussle Sprouts and spinach - both have very low carb counts. Typically, I may eat 1 or 2 apples in a day and that is my carb consumption for the entire day. The rest of my diet comes from Lean meats, eggs. etc...

[Shane Skowron]

Did you notice the section on Robb Wolf's FAQ that said, "no carbs = no glycolytic activity"?

Ketosis is totally counterproductive to true athletic training. If your goal is just to lose weight and have fun in the gym then I could understand, but without carbs it's going to be nearly impossible for you to do any sort of extended-duration activity at maximum effort.

[Mike Ridgley]

Originally Posted by Shane Skowron

Did you notice the section on Robb Wolf's FAQ that said, "no carbs = no glycolytic activity"?

Ketosis is totally counterproductive to true athletic training. If your goal is just to lose weight and have fun in the gym then I could understand, but without carbs it's going to be nearly impossible for you to do any sort of extended-duration activity at maximum effort.

Yep - Body Comp goals here so this is really inapplicable. Once I reach some of my body comp goals, I will introduce more carbs into my diet and then really concetrate on max-effort wods and just overall performance issues. For now, it is strictly to minimize the muscle loss while cutting down. My current wods are certainly below my potential (daily) - I feel that this is a direct result of not having more carbs.

But it is interesting - isn't the fat supposed to replace carbs for energy - of so, why would that not be equal to carb energy? Here again, I am not a scientist with this stuff - just following directions.

[Moran Bentzur]

Mike, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the ketosticks. You might be well into ketosis (defined as having high levels of ketone bodies in your blood - hyperketonemia) without excreting ketones in urine - hyperketonuria. I've read that most people stop ****ing ketones once their bodies shift to using them efficiently. Track your progress using a scale, bf%, miror, body measurments and how your clothes fit.

As for fat for energy - fat can be used as energy to fuel aerobic performance, but can not replace the role of glycogen. Your ability to replenish glycogen is mainly affected by your carb intake as well as the duration and frequency of glycolitic work.

[Shane Skowron]

Originally Posted by Mike Ridgley

But it is interesting - isn't the fat supposed to replace carbs for energy - of so, why would that not be equal to carb energy? Here again, I am not a scientist with this stuff - just following directions.

Fat never replaces carbs. Even with carbs, fat is the primary fuel of the oxidative system, and most good endurance athletes are very efficient at burning fat. However the one major study on ketosis (this one here, wfs) showed that without carbs, you cannot perform at optimal levels, even for endurance.
The reason for this is that fat is a "slow-burning" fuel and it needs to be coupled with carbs, since they can make energy more readily available.

Some endurance athletes occasionally practice depletion training, where they will go for hours without eating anything (or just eating fat) so that they become more efficient at fat metabolism. However you will notice that nearly every good endurance athlete will consume carbs during a race, especially ones that are readily available to the body like maltodextrin. No endurance athlete relies on fats alone.

Moral of the story, on ketosis it is possible to run/row/swim/bike for miles and miles (if you are trained for that), but you won't be ablle to race at anything.