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Old 08-14-2009, 04:28 PM   #11
Steven Low
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Re: Practical Programming for Hypertrophy

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Originally Posted by Steven Webster View Post
The less resistance the faster your workouts are going to be, it's as simple as that. Resistance determines how many reps and the size of the time frame necessary to complete the reps. At high resistance you sacrifice time under tension. If resistance were the end all be all some of us would do 1 rep then go home. Similarly if time under tension mattered alone then why even bother using any weight. Just move your arm up and down all day without any rest. You can't get stronger without volume just as you can't get bigger muscles without resistance.

Try doing a 20 rep squats with 70-75% of your 1rm under a minute. You would burn out pretty fast. Instead you might do 8 reps and rest-pause the other 12.

Rest time only matters if you're going to sit around playing chess or reading a newspaper in between sets. But what's the point in sitting around when you can be in and out the gym in an hour?
What are you talking about?

It's a continuum and you can go to the extreme on any of the 3 points of the triangle (resistance, volume, metabolic) above and get results. But it's faster to do combos of everything.

Pure resistance we have Oly lifters, power lifters, etc. who are pretty damn strong and big.

Volume you have your BBers.

Mostly metabolic you have physiques like CFers, basketball, rugby, etc.

But if you're looking for pure hypertrophy it's best to do combinations of everything. They all matter but MUST be taken in context.
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:49 PM   #12
Steven Webster
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Re: Practical Programming for Hypertrophy

I'm not sure I understand your point of contention Steven. There is a sliding scale with extreme resistance and low volume on one side and low resistance but high volume on the other, but there still cannot be one without the other.

If you're talking about combos, I think that Westside has it all. Maximum effort, dynamic effort and repetitive effort every week. To top it all off you have lift rotation to avoid burnout.
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Old 08-14-2009, 07:52 PM   #13
Steven Low
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Re: Practical Programming for Hypertrophy

I was arguing with Jason about rest times. I said it depends because there's more than one path to hypertrophy
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:53 PM   #14
Patrick Griffin
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Re: Practical Programming for Hypertrophy

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I was arguing with Jason about rest times. I said it depends because there's more than one path to hypertrophy
My internal voice is asking, "I mean, does he really think that?"

Why do you think it is that bodybuilders pay attention to rest times? Of course there's more than one path to hypertrophy. What someone looking for hypertrophy is after, however, is a more efficient path. Pulling one image off of T-nation -- a site that I'm god-damn-nearly-sure that you have spilled more ink mocking than referencing -- does not make your argument. Let's not forget that on the main page, CF still maintains that it makes better bodybuilders that bodybuilding programs. No one without a nail in the forehead really believes that.

So yeah, you can say that you were arguing "it depends" because in any circumstance, whether we're talking hypertrophy or automotive repair, it always depends and there are always more factors. Real insight is telling people what the first order factors are and which factors they might focus on less. You don't do anything except offer that everything is equal in a triangle illustrated by a site that no one here takes as gospel.
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Old 08-15-2009, 04:27 AM   #15
Tom Seryak
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Re: Practical Programming for Hypertrophy

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I was arguing with Jason about rest times. I said it depends because there's more than one path to hypertrophy
Steven, I'm with you. Sarcoplasmic versus myofibrillar hypertrophy? Longer rest periods allows generally speaking for heavier loads b/c there is more recovery...myofibrillar. Lighter loads with shorter rest periods...sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. If he is looking for faster "results" hypertrophy, shorter rest periods and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy may be his best bet. Longer lasting, but slower results, larger loads with longer rest periods. Probably not a bad idea to do both.
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Old 08-15-2009, 06:21 AM   #16
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Re: Practical Programming for Hypertrophy

Patrick-
We certainly encourage polite discussion of differing viewpoints here at the CrossFit message board. I would like to emphasize "polite".

To quote the site rules: "We require a high level of respect to be shown at all times to other users of the board." Please keep this in mind as discussion continues.
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Old 08-15-2009, 10:01 AM   #17
Steven Low
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Re: Practical Programming for Hypertrophy

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Originally Posted by Patrick Griffin View Post
My internal voice is asking, "I mean, does he really think that?"

Why do you think it is that bodybuilders pay attention to rest times? Of course there's more than one path to hypertrophy. What someone looking for hypertrophy is after, however, is a more efficient path. Pulling one image off of T-nation -- a site that I'm god-damn-nearly-sure that you have spilled more ink mocking than referencing -- does not make your argument. Let's not forget that on the main page, CF still maintains that it makes better bodybuilders that bodybuilding programs. No one without a nail in the forehead really believes that.

So yeah, you can say that you were arguing "it depends" because in any circumstance, whether we're talking hypertrophy or automotive repair, it always depends and there are always more factors. Real insight is telling people what the first order factors are and which factors they might focus on less. You don't do anything except offer that everything is equal in a triangle illustrated by a site that no one here takes as gospel.
Nice straw man.

edit: just because a site is laughable most of the time doesn't mean it doesn't contain valuable information. There are some good authors on there.
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Old 08-15-2009, 10:33 AM   #18
Daniel Higgins
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Re: Practical Programming for Hypertrophy

I believe the OP was looking for a program based on hypertrophy. With that said, I believe there is way too much tangential argument on the theory of sound methods of hypertrophy.

"With that in mind - and the disclaimer that I am not intending on doing anything particularly silly, like using isolation movements...and I am a crossfitter who intends to return to crossfitting after a period of mass focused training:"

Time under tension is most likely going to be associated with dumbell/isolation movements. Craig seems to be looking for a barbell program to boost stength and mass (good for you Craig). Time under tension is not generally suitable for compound movements like s,bp,dl,ohp. Maybe pullups and dips, but thats about it.

On that note Craig, maybe you could use a strength-building program and do TuT for accessory/supp lifts.

My point here is that he is looking for more specifity. 5x5 or 531 on the compounds is what I have experience with. Many can argue in support of them as they give great gains.

Just curious Craig, are you looking to incorporate any WODs/metcons into your program?
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:48 PM   #19
Brendon Mahoney
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Re: Practical Programming for Hypertrophy

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I don't often do this... but I disagree with Steven.

I have direct experience with multiple clients implementing loads of 55-78% of 1RM in compound movements (predominantly the Back Squat) for very high volumes with VERY LOW RESTS, and while I think that all of those parameters are important, I would say that the most important for Hypertrophy is in fact the reduced rest periods.

So, his first two point are very correct in my mind, but on the third we disagree. I would place the emphasis first on volume, then on density. Ie, reduced rest periods. There are several research pieces regarding hormonal response and other blood work (lactate especially) showing increase endocrine response to protocols of reduced or incomplete rests. Add to this excess calories and you will see rapid hypertrophy.
Jason, do you mind providing an example wod of the above? Also, I'm very interested in the research pieces regarding lactate/endocrine response.

Thanks.
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Old 08-15-2009, 06:02 PM   #20
Steven Low
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Re: Practical Programming for Hypertrophy

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Jason, do you mind providing an example wod of the above? Also, I'm very interested in the research pieces regarding lactate/endocrine response.

Thanks.
Check out pubmed and search for lactate/lactic acid, intervals, growth hormone, testosterone, IGF-1
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