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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 03-16-2004, 11:13 AM   #1
dave ojeda
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I was wondering if you put a plate under your heel or something like that when doing the OLY lifts? I figured that most people doing the WOD aren't wearing OLY lifting shoes. But I could be wrong.

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Old 03-16-2004, 11:26 AM   #2
Lincoln Brigham
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No, don't put a plate under your shoe while doing the oly lifts. That might be okay for some other lifts, but not the Olympic lifts. The feet shift WAY too much to be doing that.

I wear real weightlifting shoes, but I think you can get by with any shoe that doesn't have gel soles or a rocker toe. Skater shoes, indoor soccer shoes, hiking boots will all work well.
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Old 03-16-2004, 11:56 AM   #3
dave ojeda
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How about my good old Chuck Taylors?? I still have a pair that were made in the USA. Unlike now!
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Old 03-16-2004, 01:06 PM   #4
Brian Hand
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I'm glad someone brought this up. I agree that the plates under the heels won't work for the olympic lifts. It's also clear that whatever shoe you choose, it should not be cushy. That's just going to introduce unwanted instability. So, running shoes are out and cross trainers aren't ideal.

The question that remains is, flat or elevated heel? The flat heel should keep the shin more upright, help keep your weight to your heels, etc. The elevated heel should help you keep your torso more upright, but may push the knees forward too much.

There are a lot of articles etc. out there right now in favor of the upright shins, especially to spare the knees; so for a year or so I tried to modify my form to weight on the heels, squatting barefoot or in flat shoes (Chucks or Stan Smiths).

Funny thing - my knees feel worse! I have been switching back lately to my old form, weight centered on the foot, lifting in work boots - and the knees feel better. I don't know what to think, but I'm going to use common sense and do what doesn't hurt.
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Old 03-16-2004, 03:55 PM   #5
Larry Cook
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This article (actually, this is the abstract) discusses knee position during the squat exercise. Interesting info ...

Larry
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The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research: Vol. 17, No. 4, pp. 629–633.

Effect of Knee Position on Hip and Knee Torques During the Barbell Squat
ANDREW C. FRY, J. CHADWICK SMITH, and BRIAN K. SCHILLING

Human Performance Laboratories, The University of Memphis, Memphis, Tennessee 38152

ABSTRACT

Some recommendations suggest keeping the shank as vertical as possible during the barbell squat, thus keeping the knees from moving past the toes. This study examined joint kinetics occurring when forward displacement of the knees is restricted vs. when such movement is not restricted. Seven weight-trained men (mean SD; age = 27.9 5.2 years) were videotaped while performing 2 variations of parallel barbell squats (barbell load = body weight). Either the knees were permitted to move anteriorly past the toes (unrestricted) or a wooden barrier prevented the knees from moving anteriorly past the toes (restricted). Differences resulted between static knee and hip torques for both types of squat as well as when both squat variations were compared with each other (p < 0.05). For the unrestricted squat, knee torque (Nm; mean SD) = 150.1 50.8 and hip torque = 28.2 65.0. For the restricted squat, knee torque = 117.3 34.2 and hip torque = 302.7 71.2. Restricted squats also produced more anterior lean of the trunk and shank and a greater internal angle at the knees and ankles. The squat technique used can affect the distribution of forces between the knees and hips and on the kinematic properties of the exercise. Practical applications: Although restricting forward movement of the knees may minimize stress on the knees, it is likely that forces are inappropriately transferred to the hips and low-back region. Thus, appropriate joint loading during this exercise may require the knees to move slightly past the toes.

Reference Data:Fry, A.C., J.C. Smith, and B.K. Schilling. Effect of knee position on hip and knee torques during the barbell squat.


2003, National Strength and Conditioning Association
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:05 PM   #6
Jason Lauer
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I know Pavel suggests that you should wear lifting shoes or slippers (for powerlifts). Wrestling shoes and even Chuck Taylor's would be ok because they ,unlike normal athletic shoes, don't change the balance and contact points that humans were built for. I think the same should work for o-lifting.
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Old 03-16-2004, 09:18 PM   #7
David Werner
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I do all my lifting in chuck taylors and it's working well for me. We have seen problems however with hip and hamstring flexibility limiting depth in some of the people we train at Crossfit North. This can also lead to bad low-back position and shoulder stress, so some people really need a heel lift. There is no doubt that even the minimal cushion of chuck taylors is too much for heavy O-lifting and most people (everyone?) will do better with real lifting shoes.

The plate thing is not going to work at all.

Dave Werner
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Old 03-17-2004, 07:09 AM   #8
dave ojeda
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THanks David (and everyone else) I think I will stick to the Chuck's for now since I am just learning the OLY lifts for the WOD. I have the older version of Chuck taylors (actually made in the USA) so after there worn out I might buy a pair of the made in China ones, they have a thinner sole and different composition. This will be less cushioning then I have now.

THe lifting shoes are just too expensive for me right now and I didn't want to change shoes (from lifting to gym shoe) during my WOD routine.

BTW any good places to get cheap lifting shoes?
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Old 03-17-2004, 09:41 AM   #9
Lincoln Brigham
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Take some bowling shoes and have a cobbler glue on a thin layer of crepe rubber to the sole. Cheap.
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Old 03-17-2004, 10:07 AM   #10
Dan John
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Some people need to front squat...at first...with plates, 2 x 4s, or big heels. It is an early fix, but like all fixes, is a short term solution.

Chuck Taylors are actually good O lifting shoes...especially if you use the modern "heels only" technique.

Crosstrainers are awful. It is a math issue: Dan John weighs 230. Cleans the bar with 300. Shoes now have 530 on them. The shoes are made for joggers who occasionally do leg extensions. Shoe and "cushioned, knee saving, support, gel filled, insole" come apart. Where does foot go?

Gravity makes foot go to ground. Where does bar go? Ground.

Bad. Bad combo.

I may go to spa prison for this, but I have always thought that barefeet would be fine to train in. If someone is dropping dumbbells after Alternate Isolation Preacher Curls...this would cause some problems.

In my first meet, I lifted in combat boots that I had cut the "tops" off of. Dick Notmeyer had many a lifter compete in Sunday Best shoes. Hard soles and hard heels are the key here.

Lincoln's advice is good. Perhaps we could have a crossfit O lifting meet where you clean and jerk, then bowl the bar down to ten kettlebells.
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