CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-03-2008, 10:09 AM   #51
Kris Warner
Member Kris Warner is offline
 
Kris Warner's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dayton  OH
Posts: 187
Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Basile View Post
In all fairness Steven, you're a 135 lb gymnast. Are you really qualified to be talking about how 250+ lb professional bodybuilders--with entirely different goals than you have--should be working out for their specific sport?

People love to tell other people what to do without actually having done it. This is a great forum, but there's way too much blind-leading-the-blind.
I agree. I know I can go back to DC and put on 20lbs in 6 mos easily. I know I can stay on 5x5 and rep 2x my bw on all the big lifts. I know I can do CF and get my GPP up. I know this because I have done this in the past and I speak from experience.

And back to Stevens post....

My friends follow splits and eat 2 crappy meals a day. They are strong and continue to grow. There are numerous people on this board who have been CFing for years. I think it is fair to say that if CF had the potential of getting someone large while on a crappy diet (like my friends who eat 2 meals a day and train splits) then there should be more 180-200lb monsters on these boards. The norm I see is a solid 130-170 lb with small everything.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2008, 10:11 AM   #52
Steven Low
Member Steven Low is offline
 
Steven Low's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: silver spring  maryland
Posts: 12,221
Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Basile View Post
In all fairness Steven, you're a 135 lb gymnast. Are you really qualified to be talking about how 250+ lb professional bodybuilders--with entirely different goals than you have--should be working out for their specific sport?

People love to tell other people what to do without actually having done it. This is a great forum, but there's way too much blind-leading-the-blind.
With all due respect, if you understand the concepts behind body physiology then yes you can apply them across a broad range spectrum because every sport uses the human body. Everyone responds to training pretty much nearly the same with slight variations in what works for them in accordance with reps vs. genetics/body type but that can be very easily fleshed out.

Of course, you obviously don't have the intricacies in a sport of say specific technique or maybe even good drills unless you actually have worked on it youself.

Do I know compound exercises are better for a bigger neuroendocrine stimulus than isolation? Sure. Do I know innervating a chain of muscles rather than specific muscles leads to a better overall stimulus especially when you ADD isolation exercises after? Yep.

Blind leading the blind would be someone who is an expert in exercises trying to promote their nutrition without first having studied anything. Or something like Noam Chomsky's expertise in linguistics... and then everyone promotes his political views. Fortunately here we see the importance of the combination of exercise, diet and sleep.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2008, 10:13 AM   #53
Robert Basile
Departed Robert Basile is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 38
Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

Haha no, but I see a lot of jack-of-all-trades, master-of-all-trades-as-well types on here. People questioning the methods of guys whose entire business and life is dedicated to training bodybuilders, and making guys huge. I don't know about you, but I find it easier to listen to someone who walks the walk--the specific walk that I'm asking about, that is. If I want to know about endurance, I'd ask a triathlete. If I wanted to know about brute strength, I'd ask a strongman or powerlifter. If I wanted to get sick pipes and tight rhomboids, I'd ask a bodybuilder. If I wanted to know how to throw my bodyweight around like Spider-man, I'd ask a gymnast. But I wouldn't expect one person to know everything. There's no better teacher than experience.

There's plenty of "subject matter experts" around here, but there are fewer "everything experts" than there appear to be.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2008, 10:16 AM   #54
Steven Low
Member Steven Low is offline
 
Steven Low's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: silver spring  maryland
Posts: 12,221
Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

Quote:
My friends follow splits and eat 2 crappy meals a day. They are strong and continue to grow. There are numerous people on this board who have been CFing for years. I think it is fair to say that if CF had the potential of getting someone large while on a crappy diet (like my friends who eat 2 meals a day and train splits) then there should be more 180-200lb monsters on these boards. The norm I see is a solid 130-170 lb with small everything.
One of my friends doesn't work out and is probably around 170-180 of solid muscle... more than I'll ever have. Some people just have great genetics (genetics being predisposition to muscles mass (usually less myostatin), body type, digestive system effiecy, higher natural test/GH, etc.) that ANYTHING works for them (and sometimes even nothing works). Hell, there's those couple kids with lack of myostatin who are huge by the age of like 4.

Er, don't know where the CF stuff came in but yeah... CF doesn't make people THAT big... I agree..
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2008, 10:22 AM   #55
Steven Low
Member Steven Low is offline
 
Steven Low's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: silver spring  maryland
Posts: 12,221
Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

Quote:
Haha no, but I see a lot of jack-of-all-trades, master-of-all-trades-as-well types on here. People questioning the methods of guys whose entire business and life is dedicated to training bodybuilders, and making guys huge. I don't know about you, but I find it easier to listen to someone who walks the walk--the specific walk that I'm asking about, that is. If I want to know about endurance, I'd ask a triathlete. If I wanted to know about brute strength, I'd ask a strongman or powerlifter. If I wanted to get sick pipes and tight rhomboids, I'd ask a bodybuilder. If I wanted to know how to throw my bodyweight around like Spider-man, I'd ask a gymnast. But I wouldn't expect one person to know everything. There's no better teacher than experience.

There's plenty of "subject matter experts" around here, but there are fewer "everything experts" than there appear to be.
I'll definitely agree to that to an extent.

It may be ironic, but BBers KNOW their nutrition really well. Most of the non-huge already and natural BBers don't know what the heck they're doing because they're following magazine articles and whatever. The fact of the matter is when BBing was pretty much all natural back in the day were still very big and also strong (did a lot of gymnastics type work). Basically with them you would pretty much rarely see them doing a lot of isolation movements compared to compound work to bring up their strength and mass as well as develop excellent body awareness and and tricks.

If I want to know more about BBing I'm definitely NOT going to ask the 'experts.' In fact, there's not very many coaches out there that do BB natural at least from what I have seen being around the BB community for a couple of years.

Shrug. Take from it what you will.

I mean, it really doesn't take an expert to see that something that takes a lot of say both anaerobic and aerobic capacity like the 800m runners would benefit from metabolic conditioning, tabata intervals, HIIT and all that other stuff that increases both aerobic and anaerobic capacities very quickly. Nor does it take anyone to see that the conditioning required to do your 4+ hr practices in gymnastics requires the same ability as well as for MMA, wrestling and a whole hosts of other sports. Of course, again if you need say technique training and such it's best to talk to someone in the field... but strength and conditioning is fairly universal (along with associated mass, diet, etc.).

Last edited by Steven Low : 02-03-2008 at 10:26 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2008, 10:30 AM   #56
Tim Donahey
Member Tim Donahey is offline
 
Tim Donahey's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Columbus  Ohio
Posts: 911
Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

IMHO a lot of bodybuilders get to be monsters more in spite of their knowledge than because of it...
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2008, 10:39 AM   #57
Steven Low
Member Steven Low is offline
 
Steven Low's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: silver spring  maryland
Posts: 12,221
Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

One last thing I want to say which is if there were more people contributing with different sports backgrounds it would be better. Obviously, I have more experience with gymnastics and well a lot of bodyweight exercises + rings I would say. There's quite a few BJJ/MMA people on these boards as well as others but not many people probably have the time or energy or maybe even knowledge to contribute. Who knows. I try my best given on what I know (and what I know about the body basically translates across different sports fortunately) and am probably going to cut back in the near future. Hopefully some other people with different background will pick up the slack, eh.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2008, 08:12 PM   #58
Brad Davis
Member Brad Davis is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Blacksburg  VA
Posts: 608
Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

Wow, I agree that CF is better at creating an elite performer than BB is, but better at putting mass over the entire body? Almost every elite CF beast I've seen has tiny legs, especially calves, compared to any intermediate bodybuilder I've seen.

Big heavy legs are not all that helpful for most CF WODs as I can personally testify, being very disproportioned with legs bigger much heavier than upper body. Legs are just dead weight for many CF activities.

Last edited by Brad Davis : 02-03-2008 at 08:15 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2008, 09:14 PM   #59
Jesse Deforrest
Member Jesse Deforrest is offline
 
Jesse Deforrest's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Coconut Creek  Florida
Posts: 102
Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

Steven,

Why can't a split routine also be a full body routine? Most BBing splits I have seen involve deadlifts, squats, bench, pullups and other compound movements. Are you saying that because they are done on different days of the week they lose effectiveness of the neuroendocrine response? Id be interested in seeing studies relating to this, or if I have your point wrong please correct me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2008, 10:20 PM   #60
Steven Low
Member Steven Low is offline
 
Steven Low's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: silver spring  maryland
Posts: 12,221
Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Deforrest View Post
Steven,

Why can't a split routine also be a full body routine? Most BBing splits I have seen involve deadlifts, squats, bench, pullups and other compound movements. Are you saying that because they are done on different days of the week they lose effectiveness of the neuroendocrine response? Id be interested in seeing studies relating to this, or if I have your point wrong please correct me.
The better BB splits have compounds. It's not that they HAVE them.. it's that they do very little of them. You'll only find one day a week where they deadlift or where they squat or where they bench (unless they make a weird arms, chest, back, legs type split where you bench for arms and chest or something).

Basically you lose the effectiveness of say a full body routine 3x a week like SS provides. Tons of compounds = more muscles stimulated = better neuroendocrine response. Do that multiple days a week compared to a split where you would only do each compound many once a week with tons of isolation... I think you get the point.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New here! Bodybuilding vs. CrossFit questions Alex Grisham Starting 17 07-17-2007 11:21 PM
Crossfit and bodybuilding clary miguel Starting 7 03-29-2007 04:06 PM
CrossFit + Bodybuilding Routine Ashley Rogers Fitness 12 09-21-2005 12:35 PM
Crossfit + Bodybuilding? Neill S. Occhiogrosso Fitness 3 01-05-2004 10:17 AM
Crossfit and Bodybuilding? Nick Martinez Fitness 10 04-14-2003 02:22 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.