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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 02-03-2008, 03:04 AM   #41
Brandon Oto
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

I think comparing CF to the common, crummy BB routines is somewhat valid on the grounds that it's what many people are coming from, but a cheap shot in that you're basically comparing a well-constructed program to a lousy one. I think the point here is that CF will get you more mass than a bad BB routine, but a good BB routine will get you more mass than CF. Seeing as this is the actual point of BB and not CF, it's hard to see why this would not be the case.
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Old 02-03-2008, 07:12 AM   #42
Tim Donahey
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

Here is a new hierarchy of training for mass from greater to lesser efficacy:
1. Starting Strength on Whole Milk
2. Starting Strength w/o Whole Milk
3. Other Compound Lifting Programs (5x5, TM, WSFSB)
4. Crossfit
5. Bodypart Isolation Split Routines
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Old 02-03-2008, 07:19 AM   #43
Robert Basile
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

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Originally Posted by Daniel Schmieding View Post
Daniel, I don't think you've been doing enough front squats and cleans?

Anthony B. has got some massive legs for a dude his size. Pretty sure Greg's back is large, along with Rob Miller's. Are there clean bodybuilders or sprinters with larger legs? Sure there are. I'm also sure if those CF athletes I mentioned wanted to get even bigger, they could.
Here's part of the problem though: using people as examples when we don't know what they looked like before CrossFit/what they were doing beforehand. Wasn't Anthony B. a powerlifter? And what did Greg A. look like before he started CrossFit? I'm willing to bet he wasn't a 98 lb weakling. It seems pretty clear that the people who adjust the best to CrossFit are ones with a very solid strength background beforehand, and people who already have a strength background probably still emphasize strength training while they do CrossFit (like Michael said). An example of a great athlete who (allegedly) uses only the WOD is OPT, and I don't think anyone is arguing that he's "massive."

You're not going to get huge running a 10k twice a week. And keep in mind this thread is about "bodybuilding."
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Old 02-03-2008, 07:21 AM   #44
Matt Thomas
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

Or if you wanted crossfit to be in better standing you could say:

1. Full body programs using compound lifts (SS, 5x5, TM, etc...)
2. Crossfit
3. Bodypart Isolation Split Routines

There. Now it's #2.
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Old 02-03-2008, 08:40 AM   #45
Kris Warner
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

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Originally Posted by Tim Donahey View Post
Here is a new hierarchy of training for mass from greater to lesser efficacy:
1. Starting Strength on Whole Milk
2. Starting Strength w/o Whole Milk
3. Other Compound Lifting Programs (5x5, TM, WSFSB)
4. Crossfit
5. Bodypart Isolation Split Routines
People on here love SS. It's a great program for a novice lifter but not once you have a solid strength base. Your noob gains from it will quickly stall. It's great Rip puts lots of mass on noobs with SS. Defranco does the same thing with WSFSB. Skip (bbing nutritionalist) can do it with his athletes through food and a BBing split.

A noob that eats will put mass on with almost any program. Rip isn't putting 40lbs of mass on a seasoned lifter who weight 180-200lbs and has their big 3 above 2x bodyweight. (btw, people do this with DC which is a BBing program) SS, 5x5 (single and dual factor) and Westside are for completely different lifters. Comparing a beginner routine with an advanced routine is dumb.

I see a lot more lifters who follow BBing splits that look like Greg A than I do pure CFers. (notice I said look and not have the same work capacity) There is a guy at my gym that looks exactly like him but with better legs and a more symmetric chest...shaved head and all. He does a bbing routine.

I don't like splits at all. But every large natural bber that I've seen train in person uses a split. If this site was full of Greg A's then the CF is better than BBing at putting on mass would hold some more ground.

I'm currently on a 5x5 with some CF mixed here and there.
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:36 AM   #46
Steven Low
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

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I don't like splits at all. But every large natural bber that I've seen train in person uses a split. If this site was full of Greg A's then the CF is better than BBing at putting on mass would hold some more ground.
Yep, they would've gotten to where they are faster if they used full body routines. Kind of funny, ain't it?

Granted if you're already 'huge' a split may be what you need mainly because you only want to make minimal changes in the body by bringing out certain muscles more.
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:51 AM   #47
Daniel Hoang
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Schmieding View Post
Daniel, I don't think you've been doing enough front squats and cleans?

Anthony B. has got some massive legs for a dude his size. Pretty sure Greg's back is large, along with Rob Miller's. Are there clean bodybuilders or sprinters with larger legs? Sure there are. I'm also sure if those CF athletes I mentioned wanted to get even bigger, they could.
i am only arguing against the OP's original post wherein he proposes that crossfit blows away any program in terms of adding back and leg mass..

if those people you mention have that, i would argue that they didn't attain it from doing crossfit WODs.. how often do front squats and cleans show up in the WODs?
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:56 AM   #48
Tim Donahey
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

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Originally Posted by Kris Warner View Post
People on here love SS. It's a great program for a novice lifter but not once you have a solid strength base.
You're right, my post was directed specifically at the novice lifter. No advanced lifter could gain mass/strength on SS, and whole milk would just make them fat while they tried. In actuality there is not going to be a single hierarchy that covers every trainee at every level. There are entire books on the subject of programming from novice to elite, and the complexity of the subject makes it difficult, if not impossible, to quantify how effective CF is at gaining mass for Joe Trainee.

Last edited by Tim Donahey : 02-03-2008 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:00 AM   #49
Robert Basile
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Yep, they would've gotten to where they are faster if they used full body routines. Kind of funny, ain't it?

Granted if you're already 'huge' a split may be what you need mainly because you only want to make minimal changes in the body by bringing out certain muscles more.
In all fairness Steven, you're a 135 lb gymnast. Are you really qualified to be talking about how 250+ lb professional bodybuilders--with entirely different goals than you have--should be working out for their specific sport?

People love to tell other people what to do without actually having done it. This is a great forum, but there's way too much blind-leading-the-blind.
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:05 AM   #50
Tim Donahey
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

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Originally Posted by Robert Basile View Post
In all fairness Steven, you're a 135 lb gymnast. Are you really qualified to be talking about how 250+ lb professional bodybuilders--with entirely different goals than you have--should be working out for their specific sport?

People love to tell other people what to do without actually having done it. This is a great forum, but there's way too much blind-leading-the-blind.
You don't need to be a weather man to know which way the wind blows.
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