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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 02-02-2008, 03:43 PM   #31
Rob McBee
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

I'm snowed-in today so why not...

I think some clarification of terms would help if its even possible. So by 'bodybuilding' we're generally defining that as split routines, stuff out of the bodybuilding magazines? Then, what are we defining as Crossfit? The mainpage WOD only? That's just one example of Crossfit.

What if I'm following Greg Everett's WOD with emphasis on Oly lifting or Coach Rut's ME + MetCon etc etc.... Am I 'doing Crossfit' still for purposes of this debate? What is the official tipping point that qualifies someone, male or female, as 'looking like a bodybuilder'? Is it more dependent on total mass, bodyfat %? A SS approach obviously can pack on a huge amount of mass but does that generally produce the 'bodybuilder look'? The top level PL'ers are giant but don't remind me of BB'ers. And are we talking about 'competition ready' bodybuilder or how they look the rest of the time?

My 2cents is that the diet and (too often but not always, drugs) is more significant for attaining the bodybuilder physique than pinpointing one program over the other.
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Old 02-02-2008, 04:51 PM   #32
Larry Lindenman
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

I don't know...I think CF puts a lot of mass on the (and I hate this word) the posterior chain. Especially if your coming from a traditional, front, mirror muscle, split program. Many programs overload pushing over pulling. Crossfit corrects that and puts muscle on the back, glutes, and Hams. I'm going to argue with you over the traditional bulk up cut down stuff. I think you could add mass and cut bodyfat at the same time, a lot depends on your diet.

So where traditional BB programs focus on the relatively small mirror muscles: Pecs, biceps, abs, and quads. CF focuses on the large back muscles: lats, glutes, hams. These muscles are largely un-stimulated in most modern bodybuilding programs, leading to muscle imbalances we often see with new CF clients.

The original argument was not SS vs. Crossfit. Heck, I think the old 20 rep breathing squat, gallon of milk program is a huge mass builder. Let's be honest, most trainers aren't doing anything close to SS.

One of the things I have noticed is the CF women look a lot better, year around, than any bodybuilding/fitness competitors I have ever seen. It might have to do with women not needing to put on tons of mass to get a bodybuilder "look". I think I could safely state CF is better than any Bodybuilding program I have seen for women.

Next, I think we overestimate the efficiency of most bodybuilding programs. Go to a seminar with your average trainers who write for bodybuilding mags (paper and online) and your going to see a lot of average looking Joes. I kind of assume if your putting out the bucks to see this person speak, you have at least tried to adhere to his/her program.

Last edited by Larry Lindenman : 02-02-2008 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 02-02-2008, 05:05 PM   #33
Aileen Reid
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

I tihnk it also depends on whether you're male or female. All the stuff written about endocrine responses - or 90% of it applies to men, not women. If anyone has good refs on things like growth hormone repsonse to training etc in women I'd love to see them!
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Old 02-02-2008, 07:27 PM   #34
Steven Low
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

Cut/bulk is definitely MUCH quicker *the lower BF you are* as opposed to someone who is like 30+% BF where muscle will come on very easily as they lose fat. If someone did says SS and gained 40-50 lbs of lean mass and then cut off like 20 lbs of body fat they would be ripped.. and it probably would be much faster than gaining like 30 lbs on CF, heh. Now, there ARE excellent results on Zone, but it would be interesting to see if someone Zone bulks and cuts and see what the effect is (not that anyone is probably gonna try that). Again, it all really depends on input.

CF is better than most but not ALL I would say. That's why I wanted to ammend the FAQ. Most = not everyone.

Women have blunted endocrine responses all over regardless which is why weight training is generally slower progress.... it's not like one method has then respond differently than men do. There may be slight variations but everything that works for men works for women because we have pretty much 99+% of our genes in common (obviously).....
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Old 02-02-2008, 08:48 PM   #35
Jacob Vohs
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Cut/bulk is definitely MUCH quicker *the lower BF you are* as opposed to someone who is like 30+% BF where muscle will come on very easily as they lose fat. If someone did says SS and gained 40-50 lbs of lean mass and then cut off like 20 lbs of body fat they would be ripped.. and it probably would be much faster than gaining like 30 lbs on CF, heh. Now, there ARE excellent results on Zone, but it would be interesting to see if someone Zone bulks and cuts and see what the effect is (not that anyone is probably gonna try that). Again, it all really depends on input.

CF is better than most but not ALL I would say. That's why I wanted to ammend the FAQ. Most = not everyone.

Women have blunted endocrine responses all over regardless which is why weight training is generally slower progress.... it's not like one method has then respond differently than men do. There may be slight variations but everything that works for men works for women because we have pretty much 99+% of our genes in common (obviously).....
I'm going to start trying to clean bulk on the Zone diet.
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Old 02-02-2008, 08:57 PM   #36
Steven Low
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

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I'm going to start trying to clean bulk on the Zone diet.
With JUST CF?

Post your stats beforehand (weight, height, lifts 1 RMs, BF%,etc.) if you are and how many blocks/cals you're taking in.
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Old 02-02-2008, 10:51 PM   #37
Jacob Vohs
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

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With JUST CF?

Post your stats beforehand (weight, height, lifts 1 RMs, BF%,etc.) if you are and how many blocks/cals you're taking in.
No, I'm going to clean bulk on the zone diet with SS until May or June. Then I'll cut a little over the summer, not much though. I don't plan on gaining much fat during the clean bulk.
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Old 02-02-2008, 11:07 PM   #38
Daniel Hoang
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

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Originally Posted by Larry Lindenman View Post

Crossfit, blows away any program for putting on mass on the back and legs...all the muscles you can't see in the mirror.
show me a top crossfitter with massive backs and legs.. i dont see very many. "blows away any program"? if this is true, there should be many more of us walking around with massive backs and legs.
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Old 02-03-2008, 02:05 AM   #39
Daniel Schmieding
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

Daniel, I don't think you've been doing enough front squats and cleans?

Anthony B. has got some massive legs for a dude his size. Pretty sure Greg's back is large, along with Rob Miller's. Are there clean bodybuilders or sprinters with larger legs? Sure there are. I'm also sure if those CF athletes I mentioned wanted to get even bigger, they could.
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Old 02-03-2008, 02:22 AM   #40
Michael Bruce Mailman
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Re: Crossfit is the best program for Bodybuilding

Daniel,

I think if they wanted to get bigger they'd probably start bodybuilding.

And the crossfitters with the biggest muscles are likely doing some mutation of a the tradtional front page WOD which involves lots of strength training, ergo mass.

If you wanted to look like them, you wouldn't do the front page WOD.
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