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Old 08-09-2012, 01:51 PM   #391
Jason B Cox
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Umm, I posted the Youtube video here that we all received via email from Mr. Kelly and Ms. Glassman for those that haven't seen it yet.

It was annotated as WFS.

It appears to have been deleted.

Powers that be, if you deleted it, can I get an explanation as to why? It looks pretty terrible for you for things to go missing like this.
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:02 PM   #392
Lynne Pitts
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason B Cox View Post
Umm, I posted the Youtube video here that we all received via email from Mr. Kelly and Ms. Glassman for those that haven't seen it yet.

It was annotated as WFS.

It appears to have been deleted.

Powers that be, if you deleted it, can I get an explanation as to why? It looks pretty terrible for you for things to go missing like this.
Simple. CrossFit has decided not to provide a platform to the opposition. They obviously have many avenues to promote their position, but this isn't going to be one of them. Sadly, it's a war, and facilitating the opposition's propaganda machine is not a part of the defense strategy.
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:14 PM   #393
Jason B Cox
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Lynne Pitts View Post
Simple. CrossFit has decided not to provide a platform to the opposition. They obviously have many avenues to promote their position, but this isn't going to be one of them. Sadly, it's a war, and facilitating the opposition's propaganda machine is not a part of the defense strategy.
I can understand that - it's your message board, after all.

I would have appreciated an open discussion, and an open environment in which to discuss/debate. It would have been simple enough to delete the link and say "hey, we're not going to host links to the video. feel free to discuss it here, as it is part of the issue at hand".

Handling it this way, in my opinion, breeds distrust and suspicion.
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:16 PM   #394
Craig Massey
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynne Pitts View Post
Simple. CrossFit has decided not to provide a platform to the opposition. They obviously have many avenues to promote their position, but this isn't going to be one of them. Sadly, it's a war, and facilitating the opposition's propaganda machine is not a part of the defense strategy.
That's unfortunate, as that action undermines CF HQ's position as providing a sane, balanced view of proceedings and makes this look more like rabble rousing. And it looks like HQ are scared to let people see the oppositions's position unless it's in a form where they can control how it is presented, eg providing rebuttals to extracts of email conversations. Something a video doesn't permit.

CF HQ staff are aggressively making replies and comments on the opposition's Facebook and Blog. The video was not posted by an Anthos staffer, in fact I'm pretty sure that Jason is an affiliate owner, so by definition an interested party.

I'm sorry, but Anthos are coming off as more reasoned and reasonable at present. This censorship doesn't show CF HQ as confident of their position.
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:18 PM   #395
Jason B Cox
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Craig Massey View Post
That's unfortunate, as that action undermines CF HQ's position as providing a sane, balanced view of proceedings and makes this look more like rabble rousing. And it looks like HQ are scared to let people see the oppositions's position unless it's in a form where they can control how it is presented, eg providing rebuttals to extracts of email conversations. Something a video doesn't permit.

CF HQ staff are aggressively making replies and comments on the opposition's Facebook and Blog. The video was not posted by an Anthos staffer, in fact I'm pretty sure that Jason is an affiliate owner, so by definition an interested party.

I'm sorry, but Anthos are coming off as more reasoned and reasonable at present. This censorship doesn't show CF HQ as confident of their position.
Absolutely. It drives me nuts. It does nothing to benefit the community.
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:26 PM   #396
Russell Berger
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

The video in question is really easy to find. Putting your questions about it in this thread and asking us to weigh in is easy. Why is it so important that we allow you to include a link to what is obviously deceptive propaganda?

If you have a legitimate question about a claim this video makes post it here. Let's just start with the "better offer" claim Lauren makes. I've been given permission to publish our offers to Lauren. Here is the timeline from our accountant:

"December 13th meeting: Proposal was given to Lauren for $1.5M for 15 years My understanding was they would get back to Harvey in three weeks.


March, 2012
We all met in Harveys office and from there a letter was sent requesting a response to our offer made in December by April 16th.

April 16:
We received a counter proposal with three options. I had numerous discussions with Lauren and that we were leaning toward option one: $17.5MM over 5 Years Tax Free. Lauren seemed very pleased as this met with her objective to have a shorter payment schedule. THERE WAS NEVER A PROPOSAL THAT SHE DESIRED ALL CASH UP FRONT!

June 4th:
We countered with on Option one to ladder the payments each year as follows: $1.5M. $2.5M, $3.5M, $4.5M AND $5.5M for a total of $17.5M.

June 18th:
We received a rejection of that offer from Grace Park and also that the original three proposals were being withdrawn.

I later met with Lauren and asked why they didn't submit total cash payment upfront...her comment was we didn't think you would be able to come up with the cash. So will you take cash from us and she said no I can't due to the definitive agreement she signed with Anthos."

Note, all of our payments to her would have been TAX FREE. She is currently taking a payment of 20 million (that we would have gladly met to counter Anthos had we been given the chance) and her 20 million is subject to a 40% capital gains tax.

So if you still think this was just about the money...
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:37 PM   #397
Jason B Cox
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Berger View Post
The video in question is really easy to find. Putting your questions about it in this thread and asking us to weigh in is easy. Why is it so important that we allow you to include a link to what is obviously deceptive propaganda?

If you have a legitimate question about a claim this video makes post it here. Let's just start with the "better offer" claim Lauren makes. I've been given permission to publish our offers to Lauren. Here is the timeline from our accountant:

"December 13th meeting: Proposal was given to Lauren for $1.5M for 15 years My understanding was they would get back to Harvey in three weeks.


March, 2012
We all met in Harveys office and from there a letter was sent requesting a response to our offer made in December by April 16th.

April 16:
We received a counter proposal with three options. I had numerous discussions with Lauren and that we were leaning toward option one: $17.5MM over 5 Years Tax Free. Lauren seemed very pleased as this met with her objective to have a shorter payment schedule. THERE WAS NEVER A PROPOSAL THAT SHE DESIRED ALL CASH UP FRONT!

June 4th:
We countered with on Option one to ladder the payments each year as follows: $1.5M. $2.5M, $3.5M, $4.5M AND $5.5M for a total of $17.5M.

June 18th:
We received a rejection of that offer from Grace Park and also that the original three proposals were being withdrawn.

I later met with Lauren and asked why they didn't submit total cash payment upfront...her comment was we didn't think you would be able to come up with the cash. So will you take cash from us and she said no I can't due to the definitive agreement she signed with Anthos."

Note, all of our payments to her would have been TAX FREE. She is currently taking a payment of 20 million (that we would have gladly met to counter Anthos had we been given the chance) and her 20 million is subject to a 40% capital gains tax.

So if you still think this was just about the money...
Russell, thanks for the info. Very interesting to be sure. Clearly there is a lot about the way this deal is being structured and executed that has a lot to due with personal feelings and nothing to do with either profitability or taking care of the community.

My comments were not about the claims made in the video - just about the way in the board is being managed.

For a community in crisis (which this one absolutely is) , deleting people's posts here simply does not feel, to me, like the right way to help the community get to clarity. It also doesn't seem like a good way to win hearts and minds.

Posting info,like you have done above, is.
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:15 PM   #398
Michael Petersen
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

I can certainly understand why she would want cash up front...lots of divorce settlements detail alimony payments etc that never get made.

I'm not a tax expert...but even assuming that the 40% is right (why wouldnt this be long term capital gains for her?), 12mm after taxes right now probably sounded better than 17.5mm over 5 years on a backloaded schedule.

I can certainly see Anthos being intelligent enough to put something in the language of their offer that prevented Lauren from using it as a negotiating tool directly with HQ.

I'm not sure this indicates vindictiveness on Lauren's part...or even lack of financial accumen. Probably just a matter of Greg, HQ and Lauren not really knowing what the company was worth (which is extremely common). Anthos knows what they think it's worth (and they apparently did some due diligence)...and they have cash in hand.
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:35 PM   #399
Nathan Holmes
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynne Pitts View Post
Simple. CrossFit has decided not to provide a platform to the opposition. They obviously have many avenues to promote their position, but this isn't going to be one of them. Sadly, it's a war, and facilitating the opposition's propaganda machine is not a part of the defense strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Berger View Post
Why is it so important that we allow you to include a link to what is obviously deceptive propaganda?
It makes you look like you are trying to hide something. It makes the HQ staff, or at least the moderators, appear petty and childish. Mind you, I'm not saying they ARE petty and childish, but deleting a post because it contains a video from a 50% stake holder in the company does not strike bear the hallmark of a "mature" decision. HQ staff has posted numerous emails and statements from "the opposition" (i.e. a joint owner of Crossfit Inc). How is this video any different?

If my beloved Crossfit wants to appear like a professional organization run by professional people, this is not the way to go about it. I love the Crossfit community and it is my dream to open an affiliate some day. I train every morning in my garage with several neighbors and add one or two people a month. I bought all the equipment myself and "evangelize" every chance I get because I love it and believe Crossfit makes people better at life. That said, the way HQ is handling this situation is disconcerting. I would hope that, rather than just deleting posts, you would either join in the conversation about the video or at least let your Crossfitters and affiliates discuss the video (e.g. whether or not we think its fiction, whether or not it was appropriate, etc).

-Nate
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:02 PM   #400
Craig Massey
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

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Originally Posted by Jason B Cox View Post
Russell, thanks for the info. Very interesting to be sure. Clearly there is a lot about the way this deal is being structured and executed that has a lot to due with personal feelings and nothing to do with either profitability or taking care of the community.

My comments were not about the claims made in the video - just about the way in the board is being managed.

For a community in crisis (which this one absolutely is) , deleting people's posts here simply does not feel, to me, like the right way to help the community get to clarity. It also doesn't seem like a good way to win hearts and minds.

Posting info,like you have done above, is.
Agree.
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