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Old 04-11-2012, 12:53 PM   #21
Bob Herald
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Re: TRT experience

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Originally Posted by David Sigmon View Post
I'll need pics of the wife to determine that...
Okay, but only for scientific reasons, and a nominal fee. Hahaha
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:01 PM   #22
Bob Herald
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Re: TRT experience

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Originally Posted by Arden Cogar Jr. View Post
Bob,
I don't know if my story can help, but my knowledge may be able to. I am on TRT - I take 100mg of Test Enanthanate a week. My levels always come back around 400 to 450 ng/dl unless I have them taken before 10 a.m. (and then they will be around 500 to 550 ng/dl). In any event, I have useds PEDs in my past - about 10 years ago for about five or six cycles over a 2 year time frame when all the baseball players looked like underwear models. I have always been a large thick man - the cycles caused me to lean out and lose weight. In hindsight, I knew nothing about diet and proper periodization with my training - had I known then what I know now, things would have been a lot different.

In any event, I did not grow facial hair until I started using the PEDs at around age 30. I was never considered aggressive; if anything, I was very mild and lacked confidence was certainly, in hindsight, insecure.

When I started the aforementioned cycles, I grew facial hair and went from 265 pounds at approximately 22 percent bodyfat down to 235 pounds and 6 percent bodyfat. All the while I was eating the same foods - and in hindsight it was crap. I never took more than 600mg of combined substances a week and never for more than 12 weeks. The rule for me then was 12 weeks on 12 weeks offf. When I went off cycle, I would gain weight and fat, but my strength was always comparable.

Fast forward to 2006. My bodyweight was around 290. I had not used any PEDS for nearly 4 years. My blood pressure was high. My blood work was abysmal. Went through a horrible divorce. In hindsight, I was likely in the high 20s in the bodyfat percentage. I never stopped training. I continued to lift and train as I had in the past. Basically a power bodybuilder - big and strong. My PCP referred me to an endo because I was "not myself" - I had no libido, no morning wood, my confidence was crap, and I just didn't have it. No real real go. If that makes any sense.

Anyway, after a series of tests, I was put on androgel - or as my friends called it - Barry Bonds suncscreen. I immediately noticed a difference. Libido improved. Blood work improved. Lost weight and got leaner. At the same time, I started doing crossfit style workouts. Eventually, because my wife started getting hair in the wrong places and I feared the gel was rubbing off on my adolescent daughters, I switched to weekly self administered injections. I have to be honest, the TRT jump started a part of my life when it was most needed.

Fast forward to now, I'm 265 at around 15 to 17 percent bodyfat. I don't do many traditional crossfit workouts anymore because they leave my CNS exhausted for the training for my hobby/sport and most of the workouts are a bit too tough for the aging joints on a large framed man. I strength train every other day and event train for my sport on the off days. I feel great. I am actually stronger now at 42 than I was at 32 when I used PEDs. Actually, I'm stronger now than I've ever been in just about every movement - and even functionally (I do a lot of strongman training as part of my strength training). My training is very regimented and my diet is equally regimented. I have remarried to a wonderful woman who trains with me in both the gym and my hobby. I've gotten all my blood work and health indicators looking fantastic. I truly feel blessed.

The only negative thing I've undergone thus far in the six years I've been on TRT is that I have had repeated blood tests that revealed elevated liver enzymes. Historically, they have always been high. No higher than before I started this foray many years ago. But, out of an abundance of caution, last Fall I went off the TRT for 4 months to "cleanse" and track my liver enzymes while off the therapy. Those 4 months were wicked hard on me. I did not gain any fat. I purposely trained harder during this time frame to keep myself in decent shape. I did, however, watch several entire TV Series on Netflix in abbreviated time frames (compared to not watching TV at all as I'm always moving). I just ate less to make up for the lack of activity. The wife actually enjoyed the lack of harassment. I, however, did not.

In any event, I've written the above with the hope that you understand that it's not steroids. It's something that can make your life better if you keep track of everything and understand it's only a tool no different than anxiety medication or any other medication. Used in moderation, it's affects and effects can be positive. Used to excess is just that - excess.

I do, however, take great issue with the protocol the doctor is utilizing to "jump start" your test levels. What the others have written about HCG would be a be a more prudent protocol. Moreover, 3 shots is not a proper course - that will likely shut down your already sensitive endocrine system. Unless this protocol is something I'm completely unaware of - which is not out of the realm of possibility, but certainly nothing that I or my endo ever discussed.

Good luck.

All the best,
Arden


Great story Arden . Thank you so much for sharing that. So you understand when I say that I just don't feel like my old self. I used to weight train in the morning, do yard work at home, paddle board in the afternoon, and then train at competition level in jiujitsu in the evenings. This was a year and a half ago.

Now, I weight train in the AM, take a 2 hour nap , browse forums for 2 hours and have to muster up the energy to pry myself out of bed to go to jiujitsu and get trounced by 20 year olds every night.

The guys at work call me an old man now, and I'm 35!

Screw getting old, I'm not gonna do it hahaha.

I'll ask the doctor why he's using this protocol , Arden. I want to do this right. Out of curiosity, what were your levels when you weren't on TRT?
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:33 PM   #23
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Re: TRT experience

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Originally Posted by Bob Herald View Post
Great story Arden . Thank you so much for sharing that. So you understand when I say that I just don't feel like my old self. I used to weight train in the morning, do yard work at home, paddle board in the afternoon, and then train at competition level in jiujitsu in the evenings. This was a year and a half ago.

Now, I weight train in the AM, take a 2 hour nap , browse forums for 2 hours and have to muster up the energy to pry myself out of bed to go to jiujitsu and get trounced by 20 year olds every night.

The guys at work call me an old man now, and I'm 35!

Screw getting old, I'm not gonna do it hahaha.

I'll ask the doctor why he's using this protocol , Arden. I want to do this right. Out of curiosity, what were your levels when you weren't on TRT?
I only had them tested during the time that I went to the endo during 2006 - never tested prior to that. Now i am tested at least twice a year.

One test, I recall, had me at 150ng/dl. The equivalent, or so I was teased, of a 14 year old girl. I was routinely under 200ng/dl for the 4 or 5 times I was tested by the endo as I was "under review" for the treatment.

Good luck. And I see no shame at all in it. It's a way to live life a bit better. As I set here now, the difference for me is in my overall mood - more positive and outgoing when on the TRT - than anything else. No differences in strength. I do believe I could train a little more often while on the TRT - but that would only be marginally and more mood indicative. I've been abusing myself for so long, the volume and weights I move could be, and most likely are, a tad absurd.

All the best,
Arden
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:19 AM   #24
Cain Papettas
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Re: TRT experience

Hey guys, well im 22 years of age, just got my testosterone bloods back and im 5.2nmol/L Minimum here is from 8-30 nmol/l i have to get one more blood test to make sure, sadly i have all the same symptoms- not much body hair for a greek boy at all!, no libido, no morning ahem!!, no desire what so ever, the only thing where i differ is im low body fat and quite lean, just cannot gain muscle, also did u you guys find you needed to wake up for a pee at the early morn say 3am?

My other big prob is not being able to sleep in anymore, terrible feeling!

Now if you have read in some of my nutrition posts you could definetly argue it is diet related, but even before i changed my diet still had same symptoms! and also have terrible anxiety!

Im typing this just to warn people, get checked up its very serious! and i actually feel quite let down about all this, living my best years, and not living them at their fullest,

Take care all and be healthy!!

Caino
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:23 AM   #25
Charley Agen
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Re: TRT experience

I am in the same boat as Cain and others here. I'm in my late 20's and have been dealing with Low T for almost a year for sure, but who knows how long before I actually got my levels checked. I originally thought my Low T was due to under eating while over training. I thought a couple of years of this ruined my endocrine system. I had levels as low as 153 (241-827) and then with a different lab was measured at 203 (280-800) around the end of last year. I had most of the symptoms you guys mentioned; TERRIBLE sleep, can't think clearly, cognitive function was a mess, no sex drive, no morning erections, having to urinate all the time (especially in the middle of the night), and a big one for me is joint pain and muscle soreness. I literally felt like I was dying slowly.

So I started a eating a ton more and working out less in Jan. this year and that didn't seem to help much. So I had to totally cut out training, which was VERY difficult physically and mentally. I have continued to eat a ton. I'm 6'1'' and was about 160 and am up to 175. My bf was about 8%, now its has to be in the mid teens, not "fat", but not super lean either. I got my levels checked again about a week ago and have made some improvements. T was 360 (280-800), which is now in the normal range, but still low. I do feel better, and have been sleeping better, but no where near 100%. I still feel pretty weak, still haven't got back into training, even though I really want to (every now and then I bust out a some push-ups, crunches, or jump rope tho) I am going to keep monitoring my blood work and see if I slowly begin to increase my T on my own and plan to start some light lifting again in May. I almost think that maybe I was always somewhat Low in T and my not eating enough to sustain my workouts made me even lower.

I have seriously considered TRT, but am going to make sure I have done all I can before I make the jump. My concerns are that I want to have kids someday (I better hurry up lol), the cost of TRT, and having to rely on it for the rest of my life. It seems like it would be a huge hassle to go on vacation and or any other life events always having to rely on TRT. But then again living with extremely low T is nothing to mess with, to put it bluntly it makes life suck.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:24 AM   #26
Charley Agen
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Re: TRT experience

Here is a thread I started a while ago if anyone is interested:

http://board.crossfit.com/showthread...W+TESTOSTERONE
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:34 AM   #27
Everett Sloan
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Re: TRT experience

My brother is on TRT and he finds the topical gel leads to more stable levels than the shot.

If you are going to go with the shot, try and see if you can get a shot once or twice a week to stabilize blood levels better.

If you are going to be on it for life you have to remember that taking that many needles does have a risk of abcesses and development of scar tissue.

There is also, at least here in canada, a oral option but I have not known anyone to ever choose it as it is very expensive compared to the other methods.

I am eligible for TRT but have to wait to start it as I am trying to have children and TRT also works great as a male contraceptive. So keep that in mind if having kids is in your future.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:50 AM   #28
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Re: TRT experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everett Sloan View Post
My brother is on TRT and he finds the topical gel leads to more stable levels than the shot.

If you are going to go with the shot, try and see if you can get a shot once or twice a week to stabilize blood levels better.

If you are going to be on it for life you have to remember that taking that many needles does have a risk of abcesses and development of scar tissue.

There is also, at least here in canada, a oral option but I have not known anyone to ever choose it as it is very expensive compared to the other methods.

I am eligible for TRT but have to wait to start it as I am trying to have children and TRT also works great as a male contraceptive. So keep that in mind if having kids is in your future.
The downside to the gel is that it rubs off on other people who may be in your presence. That happened to me with my wife and I was afraid that it would impact my young daughters.

Agreed on weekly shots beign a must. I was tested during this process to check my levels at the two week, 10 day, and 7 day intervals. 7 days showed the most consistency. Lots of blood tests to get to those results, but worth it in the long run.

It's all expensive if you pay for it out of your own pocket. Before my health insurance paid for the treatment, a 10cc bottle of test was costing me $150 at WalMart. I can remember buying crap a decade ago for one third or a lot less than that - but there was a lot of questions concerning it's efficacy and cleanliness.

There is less a concern for abcesses with quality human grade test. Those horror stories primarily involve the bathtub chemists and the vet grade "stuff" imported from mexico.

All the best,
Arden
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:46 PM   #29
Michael R. Miller
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Re: TRT experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arden Cogar Jr. View Post
Bob,
I don't know if my story can help, but my knowledge may be able to. I am on TRT - I take 100mg of Test Enanthanate a week. My levels always come back around 400 to 450 ng/dl unless I have them taken before 10 a.m. (and then they will be around 500 to 550 ng/dl). In any event, I have useds PEDs in my past - about 10 years ago for about five or six cycles over a 2 year time frame when all the baseball players looked like underwear models. I have always been a large thick man - the cycles caused me to lean out and lose weight. In hindsight, I knew nothing about diet and proper periodization with my training - had I known then what I know now, things would have been a lot different.

In any event, I did not grow facial hair until I started using the PEDs at around age 30. I was never considered aggressive; if anything, I was very mild and lacked confidence was certainly, in hindsight, insecure.

When I started the aforementioned cycles, I grew facial hair and went from 265 pounds at approximately 22 percent bodyfat down to 235 pounds and 6 percent bodyfat. All the while I was eating the same foods - and in hindsight it was crap. I never took more than 600mg of combined substances a week and never for more than 12 weeks. The rule for me then was 12 weeks on 12 weeks offf. When I went off cycle, I would gain weight and fat, but my strength was always comparable.

Fast forward to 2006. My bodyweight was around 290. I had not used any PEDS for nearly 4 years. My blood pressure was high. My blood work was abysmal. Went through a horrible divorce. In hindsight, I was likely in the high 20s in the bodyfat percentage. I never stopped training. I continued to lift and train as I had in the past. Basically a power bodybuilder - big and strong. My PCP referred me to an endo because I was "not myself" - I had no libido, no morning wood, my confidence was crap, and I just didn't have it. No real real go. If that makes any sense.

Anyway, after a series of tests, I was put on androgel - or as my friends called it - Barry Bonds suncscreen. I immediately noticed a difference. Libido improved. Blood work improved. Lost weight and got leaner. At the same time, I started doing crossfit style workouts. Eventually, because my wife started getting hair in the wrong places and I feared the gel was rubbing off on my adolescent daughters, I switched to weekly self administered injections. I have to be honest, the TRT jump started a part of my life when it was most needed.

Fast forward to now, I'm 265 at around 15 to 17 percent bodyfat. I don't do many traditional crossfit workouts anymore because they leave my CNS exhausted for the training for my hobby/sport and most of the workouts are a bit too tough for the aging joints on a large framed man. I strength train every other day and event train for my sport on the off days. I feel great. I am actually stronger now at 42 than I was at 32 when I used PEDs. Actually, I'm stronger now than I've ever been in just about every movement - and even functionally (I do a lot of strongman training as part of my strength training). My training is very regimented and my diet is equally regimented. I have remarried to a wonderful woman who trains with me in both the gym and my hobby. I've gotten all my blood work and health indicators looking fantastic. I truly feel blessed.

The only negative thing I've undergone thus far in the six years I've been on TRT is that I have had repeated blood tests that revealed elevated liver enzymes. Historically, they have always been high. No higher than before I started this foray many years ago. But, out of an abundance of caution, last Fall I went off the TRT for 4 months to "cleanse" and track my liver enzymes while off the therapy. Those 4 months were wicked hard on me. I did not gain any fat. I purposely trained harder during this time frame to keep myself in decent shape. I did, however, watch several entire TV Series on Netflix in abbreviated time frames (compared to not watching TV at all as I'm always moving). I just ate less to make up for the lack of activity. The wife actually enjoyed the lack of harassment. I, however, did not.

In any event, I've written the above with the hope that you understand that it's not steroids. It's something that can make your life better if you keep track of everything and understand it's only a tool no different than anxiety medication or any other medication. Used in moderation, it's affects and effects can be positive. Used to excess is just that - excess.

I do, however, take great issue with the protocol the doctor is utilizing to "jump start" your test levels. What the others have written about HCG would be a be a more prudent protocol. Moreover, 3 shots is not a proper course - that will likely shut down your already sensitive endocrine system. Unless this protocol is something I'm completely unaware of - which is not out of the realm of possibility, but certainly nothing that I or my endo ever discussed.

Good luck.

All the best,
Arden
When you say things would've been different are you refering to you wouldn't have done them or you just would've trained differently while on them?
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:07 PM   #30
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Re: TRT experience

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Originally Posted by Michael R. Miller View Post
When you say things would've been different are you refering to you wouldn't have done them or you just would've trained differently while on them?
In hindsight, given what I know about training and nutrition NOW, I would have trained and eaten a lot differently when I was, for lack of a better term, stupid.

I'm serious. In hindsight, I ate like **it. Processed everything personified. I actually thought a double meat sub from subway was good for me and a one cheat meal everyday was okay.

And the training was something out of the old Muscle and Fitness be like "so-and-so" era. No planning other than "back and biceps", "chest, shoulders, triceps" and "legs." Deadlifts were rarely if every done. Just stupid.

I hope that makes sense?

I've made more progress, strength wise, in the past 3 years, while on HRT and following a good diet and a strict training regimen than I did in the previous 20 years combined. That includes the wonderful teenage "awesome hormonal profile" years and the brief foray into the darkside.

Granted, I looked a lot better in less clothes when I was stupid; but I was not functionally strong and was anything but fit. I consider myself pretty rugged now and I'm phenominally fit for my sport/hobby and I know I could put in a hard day's work in the hayfields or in the wood pile without issue - whereas 10 years ago, I was good for 90 minutes, tops, then I immediately needed a protein shake and a nap.

All the best,
Arden
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