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Old 07-28-2011, 06:42 AM   #231
Shane Skowron
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Riddle View Post
And notice how rule and uniform changes have been going into effect the last couple of years to lower the injuries?
Bingo!!!

What sort of changes have been going on to lower injuries in this activity? (besides "you shoulda scaled brah")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Pellegrini View Post
I skipped a few pages so sorry if this became irrelevant. Everyone keeps saying this and that about rhabdo, muscle and tendon tears etc caused by Crossfit. But unfortunately, whether you like it or not, most of us don't know squat. No one on this thread produced concrete data about Crossfit and injuries (again I skipped a page or two so if someone did please correct me). Just pointing to the injury thread is not enough. A good starting point would be to go through each thread post see what the injury is, the severity of the injury, where the injury occurred, and what could have caused it. Some factors to consider are programming, coaching, diet and nutrition, regular activities and daily habits, and general lifestyle.

Anyone feel up to the task?
There are 200+ screenshots of people from the Internet (crossfit forums, affiliate sites, Facebook, elsewhere) who indicate they got some form of rhabdomyolosis from a Crossfit workout. It's on another forum. Maybe it doesn't hold up to the rigors of statistical data collection, but are you going to deny they exist?

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Originally Posted by Alex Europa View Post
My random guess is that it IS rhabdo. Each hit in football is like a mini car crash; which is one of the most common causes of rhabdo.
So you're suggesting that most football players get rhabdo after most football games? A condition that up until Crossfit was almost unheard of in the exercise world, and that requires hospitalization and causes permanent kidney damage? Personally, I don't see how that's possible.
 
Old 07-28-2011, 07:34 AM   #232
Justin Z. Smith
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Greg Pellegrini View Post
No one on this thread produced concrete data about Crossfit and injuries (again I skipped a page or two so if someone did please correct me). Just pointing to the injury thread is not enough. A good starting point would be to go through each thread post see what the injury is, the severity of the injury, where the injury occurred, and what could have caused it. Some factors to consider are programming, coaching, diet and nutrition, regular activities and daily habits, and general lifestyle.

Anyone feel up to the task?
In CrossFit, because the focus is on performance, there can at times be anti-mainstream exercise science and anti-peer review thinking. For examples:But just because a person's performance is good, doesn't mean everything involved with the performance *caused* that performance to be good. Think of a baseball player who crossed himself, and then hit a homerun, or sports players who wear their lucky underwear, or athletes who wear all sorts of physio tape, compression clothing, etc., endorse pre, during, and post drinks, and so on. Athletes who do what are judged as stupid exercises (think of Tito Ortiz exercise video and he does various curls, or BJ Penn doing all sorts of wobble board exercises). Some of it may be beneficial of course, but applying science helps determine more of what is beneficial.

If they have $ and time and resources, I'd be interested in seeing some studies of methods that help create the fittest on the Earth.

Justin

Last edited by Justin Z. Smith : 07-28-2011 at 07:37 AM.
 
Old 07-28-2011, 07:47 AM   #233
Alex Europa
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Justin Z. Smith View Post
Some of it may be beneficial of course, but applying science helps determine more of what is beneficial.

If they have $ and time and resources, I'd be interested in seeing some studies of methods that help create the fittest on the Earth.
I think the problem that many of us have with the exercise physiology world is that they are always behind the power curve and far too people demand peer-reviewed backing of stuff before they believe that it can possibly be true. Elite coaches have known this to be true for decades: they come up with methods that work and THEN the studies are done to back things up.

I openly admit that CrossFit holds other organizations to a standard that it, to date, has not met. So please let's not go down that rabbit hole. I am merely pointing out that anyone who waits for the science will ALWAYS be behind the power curve. This is where empirical evidence and n=1 scenarios are most critical to a coach. Figure out what works for your athletes, and discard the rest...the the scientists tell you why it works later.

It's super early and I've gotta get ready for work, so I apologize if my thought process isn't quite up to par on this post.

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Old 07-28-2011, 07:49 AM   #234
Jim Denofa
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
Bingo!!!

What sort of changes have been going on to lower injuries in this activity? (besides "you shoulda scaled brah")



There are 200+ screenshots of people from the Internet (crossfit forums, affiliate sites, Facebook, elsewhere) who indicate they got some form of rhabdomyolosis from a Crossfit workout. It's on another forum. Maybe it doesn't hold up to the rigors of statistical data collection, but are you going to deny they exist?



So you're suggesting that most football players get rhabdo after most football games? A condition that up until Crossfit was almost unheard of in the exercise world, and that requires hospitalization and causes permanent kidney damage? Personally, I don't see how that's possible.
I think it is amusing how you feel that CrossFit should take some measures to prevent injuries. CrossFit is an activity!!!!!!!! Football is an activity!!!! Fottball does not do anything but be played and watched. You don't think there are guys who play tackle football without pads and get concusions or get paralyzed? I think you are talking about the NFL, not football, big difference.

Do you know how many times I remember the ambulance coming to my old Powerlifting gym? 4 times in 3 years. You know how many times the ambulance has come to my gym in 2.5 years? Zero. Thousands of dangerous CrossFit workouts done by hundreds of people and no rhabdo. I don't need to look up ststistics on Google and find this or that article about how this expert said this or that. The only injuries worth mentioning we have had were a girl tripping over a stack of bumper plates and breaking her arm, and a girl spraining her ankle by stepping in a pot hole on a run.

If youn think CrossFit is so dangerous, watch the Games this weekend and we will see how many serious injuries there are. They will be doing 10 workouts in 3 days. That would be a comprable comparison to the NFL or "football".
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:04 AM   #235
Emily Mattes
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Jim Denofa View Post
If youn think CrossFit is so dangerous, watch the Games this weekend and we will see how many serious injuries there are. They will be doing 10 workouts in 3 days. That would be a comprable comparison to the NFL or "football".
Jim, perhaps you would like some evidence. Have yourself a look-see through this thread. You can start near the back if you want the most recent results. A poster on there has gleaned many cases of SLAP tears, back injuries, Achilles tears, and about 220 cases of rhabdo. He's also assessed the causes of these injuries, and the causes end up being the same thing over and over--such as use of high-rep GHD sit-ups. This is just from what people have reported on the Internet so it excludes any injuries NOT reported in public arenas.

I think you are confusing your anecdote with data.
 
Old 07-28-2011, 08:13 AM   #236
Tamara Cohen
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Jim Denofa View Post
I think it is amusing how you feel that CrossFit should take some measures to prevent injuries.
How is that amusing?

Did my lifter break her wrist riding a bike? Yes. Did my coach break his arm skimboarding? Yes. Are either of those activities that they were doing under the supervision of a certified coach in a location affiliated with a larger organization? No. Big difference.

In the process of doing CrossFit, I ended up with a probable SLAP tear and two bulging discs in my neck. Could both of those things have happened doing other activities? Yes. But, they happened due to activities that I did for CrossFit. As a result, I reevaluated what I find to be an acceptable risk versus reward situation for my own gym. This is why I don't allow kipping at my gym and why I don't allow high rep barbell exercises for time. I looked at my own experience and the experience of others and made an informed decision.

I don't think that's amusing. I think it's intelligent.

When Rip was at my gym two weeks ago, we talked a lot about coaching, about gym set up, and about learning from mistakes. He said, "You're going to make a lot of mistakes along the way." Of course I am. But, the important part is that I will do my very best to learn from my mistakes and to not make the same mistakes again.
 
Old 07-28-2011, 08:13 AM   #237
Wyatt Fairchild
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Emily Mattes View Post


Life-threatening injuries like rhabdo and compartment syndrome?
I had an 18 year old cousin that died playing a pick up soccer game in a park by accidentally getting kicked in the head.

and

A friend of mine's older brother is paralized from the waist down by tripping while playing basket ball on a rec team.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:17 AM   #238
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Pellegrini View Post
I skipped a few pages so sorry if this became irrelevant. Everyone keeps saying this and that about rhabdo, muscle and tendon tears etc caused by Crossfit. But unfortunately, whether you like it or not, most of us don't know squat. No one on this thread produced concrete data about Crossfit and injuries (again I skipped a page or two so if someone did please correct me). Just pointing to the injury thread is not enough. A good starting point would be to go through each thread post see what the injury is, the severity of the injury, where the injury occurred, and what could have caused it. Some factors to consider are programming, coaching, diet and nutrition, regular activities and daily habits, and general lifestyle.

Anyone feel up to the task?
That would be a job for CFHQ, if they cared.

Posts on a message board are merely anecdotal evidence, because you don't have any way to verify the diagnosis, you don't have a count for the number of people who got injured and didn't post, and you don't have any data on the number of people who didn't get injured. Gathering all that information would be a major research project, and is unlikely to happen without funding.

There's also been at least one thread on a different forum that simply counted all the times the word "rhabdo" occurred, even though many (like your post and this one) had nothing to do with an actual rhabdo incident.

Katherine
 
Old 07-28-2011, 08:19 AM   #239
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Struan Potter View Post
Have a read if you have some time to kill

I haven't read it for a few weeks, but the guy's counted around 200 cases of rhabdo.
I've read that thread, or one like it. He counted 200 mentions of rhabdo in the Crossfit forums. So this post would count, and so would yours.

Katherine

Last edited by Katherine Derbyshire : 07-28-2011 at 08:21 AM.
 
Old 07-28-2011, 08:35 AM   #240
Shane Skowron
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Re: Gillian Mounsey Article

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
I've read that thread, or one like it. He counted 200 mentions of rhabdo in the Crossfit forums. So this post would count, and so would yours.

Katherine
Actually it wasn't.
 
 


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