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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 09-28-2010, 11:32 AM   #41
Justin Z. Smith
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Re: In a sentence, define crossfit.

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Originally Posted by Mauricio Leal View Post
So you're pretty much assuming this is what people were doing before CF became popular? Negative.
Mauricio, I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. To clarify, here is what I am talking about when I say "scaling":

For any exercise method, if a person can't do exercise E for whatever reason, they decide to modify E somehow to a similar/substitute exercise, E*, that they can do, perhaps with plan of working up to be able to do E one day.

This is common sense and was certainly around well before CrossFit. I've experienced it in martial arts and yoga. Both subjects were around gazillions of years before CrossFit.

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Old 09-28-2010, 11:50 AM   #42
Allen Tluczek
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Re: In a sentence, define crossfit.

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Originally Posted by Mauricio Leal View Post
Not calling you out specifically, but I detect a pretty strong level of bitterness/resentment towards community as a whole, which is based on... what? I don't like to jump to conclusions, but it seems to me that this sort of foot stomping is just a form of nativism, particularly amongst lifters who feel like their turf is being scuffed by the growing number of folks who are demonstrating how unexceptional achieving mediocre things in a single discipline really is. Nothing destroys an athlete faster than ego!
Perhaps I missed that part? In Carls post, you can replace "crossfit" with any other exercise. Or sport. Yes, including soccer, or rugby.
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:52 AM   #43
Mauricio Leal
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Re: In a sentence, define crossfit.

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Originally Posted by Justin Z. Smith View Post
Mauricio, I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. To clarify, here is what I am talking about when I say "scaling":

For any exercise method, if a person can't do exercise E for whatever reason, they decide to modify E somehow to a similar/substitute exercise, E*, that they can do, perhaps with plan of working up to be able to do E one day.

This is common sense and was certainly around well before CrossFit. I've experienced it in martial arts and yoga. Both subjects were around gazillions of years before CrossFit.

Justin
Sure, perhaps we're not in big disagreement, but referring to scaling as age old common sense is misleading if not generally inaccurate. There is a big difference between intuitive/common sense scaling, such as grandma using a hand-railing down the stairs, and saying "I'm going to teach you how to olympic weightlift and swing on a pull-up bar, and do it quickly, here is a detailed set of steps on how we're going to get there." Additionally, art forms have always been more compliant when it comes to introducing the untrained because pushing the envelope and competition are not the dominant themes. Sports are by definition competitive and have thus developed barriers to participation because the goal is to produce athletes not improve quality of life or "fitness." Let's not mince words: not too long ago a "trainer" was simply the baddest dude in the gym who didn't know a thing about scaling. You just do what he does brah and maybe you get buff, maybe you get injured. That CrossFit has taken the lead on bridging this gap, and on a grand scale, seems to be difficult for some people to acknowledge.
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Old 09-28-2010, 12:09 PM   #44
Mauricio Leal
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Re: In a sentence, define crossfit.

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Originally Posted by Allen Tluczek View Post
Perhaps I missed that part? In Carls post, you can replace "crossfit" with any other exercise. Or sport. Yes, including soccer, or rugby.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. We're having a mini-argument over whether scaling is inherent to all disciplines, which in a very broad sense is true, but I'm saying the degree to which it is true matters and is what makes CrossFit somewhat different. Having a kids and adult league play separately is an example of scaling. So is having weight classes. Guess what, injuries still occur with pretty high frequency because scaling the movements of most competitive sports are still a particular challenge regardless of ability level, especially in competitive play and with poor preparation strategies. CrossFit goes to great lengths to ensure that both of those aspects are addressed to minimize this risk, partly because we acknowledge that the movements we are performing do carry pretty high inherent risks if not properly coached, so the level of coaching must be exceptional, especially to allow the intensity level that is one of the pillars of the methodology. I'd agree Yoga and the Martial Arts are pretty exceptional, but the intensity level is lacking for a lonnng time in the developmental process; Gymnastics coaching is probably even better than CF to be honest because the level of detail required is tremendous.
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Old 09-28-2010, 12:20 PM   #45
Brian Degenaro
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Re: In a sentence, define crossfit.

Mauricio, any trainer worth their salt "pushes the envelope" for the individual be it an athlete or Grandma. Outside a CF setting, and before most people knew what CF was I had seen trainers do 2-on-1 sessions and have clients push one another in workouts. Guess what? They reached their goals and then some, WITHOUT CrossFit bridging a gap.

CrossFit hasn't done anything different than your definition of a "trainer" because in several boxes I've been to a "trainer" is the "baddest dude in the gym" who happens to run the class or affiliate and "maybe you get [fit], maybe you get injured." BUT they're CF certified in XYZ so it's ok then because injury is a part of this "sport".

Not too long ago (and currently) I remember many trainers were just the guys who had pieces of paper to back them up, without any knowledge behind them whether it be in the real world or applied or schooling. These people provided the illusion of training and fitness. These were the ones who interrupted you midset and said you're doing it wrong. Sounds awfully familiar to what I've seen or heard outside of regular gyms.

But enough on that and back to the main topic here.
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Old 09-28-2010, 12:32 PM   #46
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: In a sentence, define crossfit.

At least for older participants, rugby is scaled. The color of your jersy dictates how opposition is allowed to interact with you (tackles, two hand touch, etc).
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Old 09-28-2010, 01:43 PM   #47
Aushion Chatman
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Re: In a sentence, define crossfit.

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Originally Posted by Brian Degenaro View Post
Mauricio, any trainer worth their salt "pushes the envelope" for the individual be it an athlete or Grandma. Outside a CF setting, and before most people knew what CF was I had seen trainers do 2-on-1 sessions and have clients push one another in workouts. Guess what? They reached their goals and then some, WITHOUT CrossFit bridging a gap.

CrossFit hasn't done anything different than your definition of a "trainer" because in several boxes I've been to a "trainer" is the "baddest dude in the gym" who happens to run the class or affiliate and "maybe you get [fit], maybe you get injured." BUT they're CF certified in XYZ so it's ok then because injury is a part of this "sport".

Not too long ago (and currently) I remember many trainers were just the guys who had pieces of paper to back them up, without any knowledge behind them whether it be in the real world or applied or schooling. These people provided the illusion of training and fitness. These were the ones who interrupted you midset and said you're doing it wrong. Sounds awfully familiar to what I've seen or heard outside of regular gyms.

But enough on that and back to the main topic here.
You're confusing methodology and observed practice...just sayin'...there are good and bad practitioners in any discipline. Even trainers and even as a subset, CF trainers.
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:20 PM   #48
Brian Degenaro
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Re: In a sentence, define crossfit.

I know that, but the impression I get from many (not most, but many) CrossFitters is CF is superior, that they themselves are superior to others. They're human just like everyone else. It does not make someone superior to one another just because they train or work at a CF gym or if they're a weightlifter or a powerlifter or sprinter or weekend warrior.
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:22 PM   #49
Dave Hardy
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Re: In a sentence, define crossfit.

Fitness training which may or may not be suitable for you goals.
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Old 09-28-2010, 06:41 PM   #50
David Meverden
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Re: In a sentence, define crossfit.

Justin is right that anything CAN be scaled, but I see what Mauricio is getting at.

Scaling is not the standard practice for most activities, and because of this many people get pigeon holed into roles that suck. For example, obese couch potato and a weak grandma go to the gym. Obese person is told to walk around the track and use some machines, and the grandma is sent to water aerobics. Sure, it's completely possible for them to play a slow paced modified basketball game, or train for a scaled set of track and field events, but such an outcome would be truly exceptional and depend on exceptional coaches going out of their way to make it happen.

CF isn't like that. From the ground up it has been created as a place where everyone, regardless of fitness background, age, gender, or weight gets to feel like an athlete, do the same kind of training, and get the same sense of accomplishment from earning measurable performance and fitness gains. That inclusiveness is not the exception in CF, like it is with most worthwhile fitness pursuits. It's the standard. And that's different.
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