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Old 09-17-2010, 11:45 AM   #121
Scott Donchak
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Re: How have we arrived at this place in our evolution ?

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Which plan? Are you saying socialized medicine is therefore impossible, or that requiring total risk minimization is impractical?
Risk mitigation is impossible, but at the same time necessary to make equalized socialized healthcare the "fair" system it's supposed to be. A paradox if you will.

Socializing healthcare is not impossible, clearly, but is simply not the fairest option on two levels.

The first being asset distrubution: everyone puts in X% of their income towards healthcare but receives a completely variable sum of services in return.

The second being the value of the dollars spent. I have no problem paying for little Timmy's heart transplant because he got an unlucky genetic defect, but should I reall be responsible for Fat Albert's lung transplant because he was a chain smoker for 40 years? I don't get to pick where the money goes, which is problematic. I'm all for philanthropy, but I'd like to pick and choose if you dont' mind.



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If the former, what is your proposed alternative to Medicare, keeping in mind that it exists in the first place because elderly people are effectively uninsurable in the private market?

Katherine
Baby Boomers...
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:52 AM   #122
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: How have we arrived at this place in our evolution ?

WHat if the injury is caused during an activity that reduces other health problems?

I twisted my ankle running, but running keeps me in good shape so I can avoid heart disease and diabetes. Who pays for my ankle?
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:02 PM   #123
Morgan McGaha
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Re: How have we arrived at this place in our evolution ?

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Originally Posted by Scott Donchak View Post
Well this just shuts down my argument completely. I concede...

Well played good sir.
My logic is infallible.
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:13 PM   #124
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: How have we arrived at this place in our evolution ?

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Originally Posted by Scott Donchak View Post
The first being asset distrubution: everyone puts in X% of their income towards healthcare but receives a completely variable sum of services in return.

The second being the value of the dollars spent. I have no problem paying for little Timmy's heart transplant because he got an unlucky genetic defect, but should I reall be responsible for Fat Albert's lung transplant because he was a chain smoker for 40 years? I don't get to pick where the money goes, which is problematic. I'm all for philanthropy, but I'd like to pick and choose if you dont' mind.
Both of these are problems with any form of insurance, public or private. The whole point is to spread the risks across a large group of people, most of whom *won't* need as much in services as they've put in as premiums. The bigger and healthier the pool, the lower premiums can be. And yes that's "unfair" to the healthy people, except it means they don't have to sell their houses when they get in car accidents or their kids lose the genetic lottery.

And of course the whole issue of Fat Albert's lung transplant raises another question: okay, someone is uninsured and suffering from a chronic medical condition that is at some level their own fault. Are you actually willing to allow untreated complications of diabetes to kill people -- gangrene from a foot that needs to be amputated, say? If not, *someone* is going to have to pay for their care. Who? Alternatively, how much state power are you willing to exert to force someone to change a risky lifestyle?

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Baby Boomers...
What about them? They're in the process of becoming the problem, not the solution.

Katherine
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:52 PM   #125
Anne Dayton
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Re: How have we arrived at this place in our evolution ?

Good debate.

What do you do with the 18 year old who has grown up in a very sedentary couch surfing, cigarette smoking, booze swilling household and that is the only lifestyle/environment they know? They are now an adult and as such could be expected to make some of these very important life altering decisions on diet and health choices, exercise etc., but do they really have the tools and the knowledge to do so?

One could hope that they might go to college or a workplace that would expose them to alternatives. However, college may not be an alternative and workplace may not offer the health counseling/free information sessions/contests and a $300 reimbursement for participating in exercise.

Do we assume/hope they get an alternative view in school before they get to be an adult?

Do we hope they google Crossfit and Paleo/Zone and figure it out on their own?

Those of us on this board appear to be (for the most part), somewhat educated or exposed to multiple worldviews, many have a sports/athletic history of some sort and it seems we all have consistent dedicated internet access and therefore access to information that doesn't just drop into your snail mail mailbox (unless it is a credit card application).

When I go to my local library, the 12+ carrels of internet access computers are always full and there is a waiting line. This tells me that lots of people in my general area don't have dedicated internet at their home, so I am guessing they can't afford a gym membership. Yeah, I get that they should get out and walk/run and do bodyweight exercises, but I am not going to bet on that happening.

So maybe we need to work on changing what happens in kindergarten and work our way up.

Oh, and yes, we should all support our local farmers market.
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Old 09-17-2010, 04:47 PM   #126
Yahya Kohgadai
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Re: How have we arrived at this place in our evolution ?

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WIN. Maby add on that we sit at home, watch porn on one screen, play games on another, text, listen to our ipod insanely loud, eat taco bell, and if there is enough time, scratch our balls.
alright... ball scratching for time.. 3, 2, 1, GO!
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Old 09-17-2010, 05:16 PM   #127
Angelina Kelly
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Re: How have we arrived at this place in our evolution ?

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1) 99.9 times out of 100, yes, being obese automatically means you're unhealthy. Catering to that .1% is a joke.
2) The fact that the health issues I chose have visible manifestations is irrelevant. I could have easily chosen high cholesterol. (And not the “good” kind)
I was trying to say you can't equate obesity and smoking. Smoking leads to many issues especially lung cancer. What disease does obesity lead to? Obesity can be an indicator of poor lifestyle. And there are varying levels of obesity. When I weighed 150 lbs more, I was obese. I'm still obese. (I think I need to lose 20 lbs to be considered overweight per BMI which is a joke).

I know many people who grew up on fast food and such and aren't obese while I know obese people who never eat fast food. I personally always hated fast food, even as a kid. I always had good blood pressure, cholesterol, etc and I've known other obese people that are similar.
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