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Old 08-28-2008, 07:01 AM   #111
Adam Head
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Location: Athens  GA
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

Originally Posted by Tobias W. Neal View Post
Damon sorry if I made you sick...what?

John and Jason...great responses and long enough to make my head hurt hahaha but good none the less.

I don't know how to extract different responses since I am in general computer illiterate. So, let me give you my point...

My business is small but has grown not through the main site...out of my 50 folks, three have come from the main site and everyone else through word of mouth. Most here have not heard of CrossFit unless they come from the military. This will change but many affiliates build there business one person at a time by walking and talking the kool-aid.

My mom once said that I was created to be the rock that drops in the pond...I was created to cause help facilitate change...sometimes it causes a ripple that folks can discuss, rant, and learn and sometimes it comes back and slaps the sh** out of me. In essence I am a voice for those that complain to me and don't want to say anything...sometimes it is fun, other times I get beat up

If you compare us to franchises that the initial investment is $40,000 plus and a monthly payment to the motherships coiffers then we are way above the curb with the $1000.00 investment and $500.00 to $1000.00 a year. So, from a business sense I am happy but I am also a voice for those that are not.

As far as the quality of the Cert...if you breathe, pay $1000.00, and show up you are now certified to coach? Now, CrossFit has grown leaps and bounds and HQ is struggling to keep it from getting watered down but it is without going globogym here ACSM, and NSCA, have certs and to some degree standards...the study at home bs kind and the one that requires a between CrossFit needs to put into place some sort of standard for its coaches if we are hoping to truly represent what we all think CrossFit is.

I had someone visit from a different CrossFit and we chatted...they don't really teach the lifts and mainly do that Crossfit? My point is I do not know the quality of the coaches these folks came from because I don't know how far that Coach went to learn beyond the cert...thoughts?

Sorry this isn't more direct but its early and my brain is rambling.

Tobias, I agree. I think, if you go back and look, that the certs are gradually moving towards what we want to see. More standards and more accountability. At my level 1, I was rather surprised at the lack of knowledge that the level 2 people were supposed to have in teaching the 9 basic movements. There were good, bad and definitely ugly. When the level 3 coach, (Maj. Andy) has to step in to correct the instruction, something is wrong. This was only a year ago.

Now, to become a level 2, you go to a separate cert, which I hear is pretty demanding and has a very high failure rate. Well, you obviously can't fail unless there is a standard to be met. So this means that someone realized there was a problem, or at least, a better way.

To become a Level 3, you have to be invited. I think this is moving in the right direction, and with time, the level 1 may not even be called a "certification". Who knows?

I am glad though that others out there share the same standards of training. Good on ya' man.
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Old 08-28-2008, 07:19 AM   #112
Monique T. Ames
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

I have to admit that I only read the last page and I agree 100% with Doug C.

A CrossFit Affiliate can be very profitable as long as you treat it as a business. It's not just about being a great trainer and loving what you do. You have to be a salesperson (think consultative sales, not car sales); you have to market (think strategic alliances, not flyers or door-to-door); you need professional systems in place to ensure consistency (of training, handling phone calls/walk-ins, trackng clients, training trainers...etc); you have to be a great manager; and you have to have entrepreneurial vision in order to grow it. On top of all that, you must ensure high quality training of course.

If you're not doing all that (I think impossible) or bringing in 1 or 2 others to fill in the gaps, then I think you would be hard pressed to be very successful unless you're just lucky (but that will run out).

It's easy to manage and train in a gym with 25 clients. It's not so easy when you hit 50. And it is critical to be on point when you want to go to 100+.
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Old 08-31-2008, 04:28 PM   #113
Jim Denofa
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

have not read all of the posts in this thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned. Coach has said on numerous occasions, the certs exist because people want them to. At the cert I went to he showed up on the last day and told us all that everything we learned this weekend we could have learned for free on the site. I knew that, and everyone else in the room knew that as well. I personally wanted to get certified for the experience not for the instruction. I also plan to affiliate one of these days. we all know what happens at certs, and we all know how rushed it would have to be to cram all that info into one weekend. well we should anyway.
I am glad I went to the cert. I wish it was cheaper, but i guarantee that when the certs cost 2,000 in a couple years there will still be people on the waiting list for them.
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Old 08-31-2008, 07:37 PM   #114
Barry Cooper
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

I've been half tracking this thread for a bit, and although I have not read everything (I'm not fully informed), I have decided to comment.

Here's the deal. I ran Cross Country in high school. I stunk badly, but I always hung in there. There was a guy in my German class who was at least trying to lift real weights. I worked out, if memory serves, at 24 hour fitness. I stuck to the machines, and never got any more cut, or any stronger. He was always in that crazy corner where they did stuff like squating. With barbells. What is that about?

That's what I thought. The first time I ever squatted for real, I thought 225 for reps was superhero territory. Seriously. I did.

Obviously, I have changed over time, but I would like to offer here a truncated commentary on what CrossFit--understood as this site, the Cert's, and the affiliates--has accomplished.

Coach Glassman has literally created a template for professionalism. Think about it. If someone rejected everything about Metcons, but wanted to see how one properly executes a deadlift, this is a really good place, isn't it?

More generally, I pay something like $500 to keep my NSCA Cert. in place. I took the test, passed it, and now they want a mess of Continuing Ed. Units. Do these CEU's make me better as a trainer or an athlete?

Honestly, I don't think so. When someone--anyone--is contemplating attending a CrossFit Level 1 or 2 Cert. (I have never been to a Level 2, in the interest of honesty), what you are asking is: do I want to learn to do these techniques properly, as taught by the best faculty currently available for hire in the United States, and possibly other nations?

If you don't want to learn things properly, but would prefer an underpriced guesser, then the Cert's are overpriced. If you want to observe first hand a trainer whose example will serve you and your clients for most or all of your training life, then a CrossFit Cert. is for you.

I have to say, mediocrity is the habit of most generalized sports training regimens. Primere Non Nocere is the first oath of the Hippocratics. Above all, do no harm. This impulse is understandable. At the same time, harm can equally be understood as not offering possible benefits.

In my own view, once all this is processed, the Cert's become very wise uses of money. How often do you encounter people who can teach you, on a fundamental basis, how to move better?
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Old 09-03-2008, 08:57 PM   #115
Tom Brose
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

John C Brown
Jerry Hill
Doug Chapman

I stand with them. If people honestly worry that the profit margin is too high on the certs, don't go. CrossFit is a lot more than the WOD, Journal and certs. I am proud to be part of it.

Last edited by David Wood; 09-03-2008 at 10:19 PM.. Reason: fixed typo
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Old 09-04-2008, 11:35 AM   #116
Sean Dunston
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

I will again state that I thought my money was well spent at the Level I Cert I attended.
If you don't think so, fine.
If you are not yet a subscriber of the CFJ, spend $25 and subscribe to it. Then log in and watch the video with Kyle Maynard regarding what he thought of his experience at his Level I Cert.
Mount Vernon CrossFit, Owner
USA Powerlifting, Virginia State Rep
My gym- Mount Vernon CrossFit
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Old 09-05-2008, 11:38 AM   #117
Jerimiah Childress
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Re: Certs-Cash Cow and Over Hyped.

We have 3 affiliates here in the Tulsa area, I have worked with all of them and they are all great coaches, but None of it is as great as the focused time on learning the movements. I attended my first cert memorial day weekend and have been teaching a class since then at my local affiliate. Even if I am never able to make money off of training, I will still believe that the Cert was worth every penny. I guess you have to take your current income and desire for knowledge to decide if the price worth it for you. Those who have said that the cert is not enough to make you a coach, they are right. Being certified does not make you a coach, coaching makes you a coach. The certification only gives you the tools to make yourself an effective coach. One thing to remember if your the person looking at how much money they make is that many of the people taking level 1s now are REtaking them so they are only paying 250-500 dollars which significantly reduces the cash flow.
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