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Old 12-21-2011, 04:19 PM   #1
Preston Sprimont
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barbell back squats w/ KBs hung from bands

A few questions...
1) Does anyone know the name (or if there is one) for these? The term "chaos squats" comes to mind, but a google search yields a bunch of entirely unrelated results.
I saw them in a video (I forget if it was a CF journal video or what, but I believe it was Westside-inspired) a while back and have since incorporated them into my training on occasion (on DE effort squat days or sometimes as a warm-up or cool down).

2) Is there a "right" place on the bar to hang the KBs from the bands? I've always done it just outside the plates on the bar. I imagine that the further from the center it is, the more of a "torquing" effect it would have...

3) Does anyone have any anecdotal or evidence-based insight into the benefits of these? Or are they really nothing special?
I mostly incorporate them for fun or just to mix things up--I never center a workout around it. But it would be nice to know if there are benefits, and if there are, how those benefits are best harnessed.
I know (or have heard, at least) that the "bandbell" bar really gets the pendulum effect and forces the stabilizing muscles to work hard. This all supposedly helps with rehab and strength--it makes sense in my head, so I buy it. Can the same thing be said of hanging KBs from a barbell? It seems that it might be somewhat like odd-object training, and that is supposed to have its merits as well.

Any insights are appreciated!
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:47 PM   #2
Robert Fabsik
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Re: barbell back squats w/ KBs hung from bands

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDPc1PzjmJk (WFS)

Koji squats. I think the core idea behind this is building stabilizers and helping to fix form.
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:31 PM   #3
Preston Sprimont
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Re: barbell back squats w/ KBs hung from bands

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Originally Posted by Robert Fabsik View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDPc1PzjmJk (WFS)

Koji squats. I think the core idea behind this is building stabilizers and helping to fix form.
Ah, thank you, Robert!
Dan John is fantastic.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:12 AM   #4
David Meverden
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Re: barbell back squats w/ KBs hung from bands

The journal video about a similar topic was a bamboo bar, which was being used primarily for bench press, but was also demoed with overhead squats.

It is used in that case largely to build stability in the shoulder. I'll have to watch that Dan John video about koji squats. I suspect the benefit for squats wouldn't be as great since most people's hip stability doesn't need work, but I'll see what the video says.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:49 AM   #5
Pearse Shields
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Re: barbell back squats w/ KBs hung from bands

That bamboo bar looked crazy. But yes, I believe that the term chaos was used to describe it in a Westside Barbell video on benching with the bamboo bar and the KBs hung from it by bands.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:06 AM   #6
Preston Sprimont
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Re: barbell back squats w/ KBs hung from bands

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
The journal video about a similar topic was a bamboo bar, which was being used primarily for bench press, but was also demoed with overhead squats.

It is used in that case largely to build stability in the shoulder. I'll have to watch that Dan John video about koji squats. I suspect the benefit for squats wouldn't be as great since most people's hip stability doesn't need work, but I'll see what the video says.
The bandbell video isn't the one I'm thinking of, though that bandbell is seemingly going for the same effect... the one I saw is from a while back, at least a few months, and it was about squatting in particular. I can't remember if it was in the journal, linked on mainpage, or entirely unrelated, but I think the guys in it were saying they just came back from spending some time at Westside or maybe Supetraining gym and had since been incorporating these squats.

Good point about the hip stability not being as big of an issue for most people as compared to shoulder stability. I guess that's just true of larger muscle groups in general.
Perhaps, then, to get the desired effect for squatting, it would be better to have a greater % of the weight hung from bands (I usually do it with at least 45s on the bar and make up the rest of the weight with plates or KBs hung from bands), or even to give the weights a little "swing" before unracking the bar. But that sounds potentially dangerous/stupid if it gets too crazy.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:49 AM   #7
Boris Bachmann
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Re: barbell back squats w/ KBs hung from bands

If you want to add a little instability without going crazy, suspending chains so that they are above the floor through some or all of the lift will be enough to help tighten up most people's technique.

For that matter, simply adding some bands and/or chains will tighten up people's technique a lot. It's fun, but most people won't need to add too much in the way of "chaos".
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:28 PM   #8
Terry Gibbs
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Re: barbell back squats w/ KBs hung from bands

Met Koji back in 2008 and saw him train, did several seminars for us over three days.

For the squat he uses twp 16lb hammers. The diff with them is that the weight is at the end of the movement arm. The hammers are near the bar ends. This means they swing, really swing. With the weight of the chain in Dan's video it kind of kills the swing. Know Dan did not have two 16lbers in his bag and so worked with what he had.

Koji also does hyper/ back extensions with a 20 kg bar and two hammers, on eat each end. The hammers are set to swing in opposite directions before he starts.

and does step ups with hammers tied each side to his belt.

does a variety of other stuff with them, and they are all aimed at turning on the invoulntatry muscles of the core.

Koji back in around 2007 had a bad back, almost put him out of business. He was 32. He could no longer lift the big weights, (192-5 kg power clean, 240kg narrow stance olympic squat), so he came up with this stuff to keep his back strong while rehabbing it.

Came back in around 2010 and then won the worlds this year, oldest ever guy to win a worlds throwing championship.

He is also maybe histories greatest thrower, as there ar no question maeks in him, and he has two throws over 84 on of them done at a remarkable 94.5kgs.

and is a total class act,

so if you back is nagging after hitting your daily twenty throws with the 16, then these could really help .....otherwise ...
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:29 PM   #9
Terry Gibbs
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Re: barbell back squats w/ KBs hung from bands

Met Koji back in 2008 and saw him train, did several seminars for us over three days.

For the squat he uses two 16lb hammers. The diff with them is that the weight is at the end of the movement arm. The hammers are near the bar ends. This means they swing, really swing. With the weight of the chain in Dan's video it kind of kills the swing. Know Dan did not have two 16lbers in his bag and so worked with what he had.

Koji also does hyper/ back extensions with a 20 kg bar and two hammers, on each end. The hammers are set to swing in opposite directions before he starts.

and does step ups with hammers tied each side to his belt.

does a variety of other stuff with them, and they are all aimed at turning on the invoulntatry muscles of the core.

Koji back in around 2007 had a bad back, almost put him out of business. He was 32. He could no longer lift the big weights, (192-5 kg power clean, 240kg narrow stance olympic squat), so he came up with this stuff to keep his back strong while rehabbing it.

Came back in around 2010 and then won the worlds this year, oldest ever guy to win a worlds throwing championship.

He is also maybe histories greatest thrower, as there ar no question maeks in him, and he has two throws over 84 on of them done at a remarkable 94.5kgs.

and is a total class act,

so if you back is nagging after hitting your daily twenty throws with the 16, then these could really help .....otherwise ...

Last edited by Terry Gibbs : 12-22-2011 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:32 PM   #10
Terry Gibbs
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Re: barbell back squats w/ KBs hung from bands

actually if you watch Dan's video he sets the bells swinging between reps.
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