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Old 09-21-2011, 07:35 PM   #11
Sean Dunston
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Re: The UFC WW Dillema

Hmm.
I thought the goal of a fight was to WIN.
And don't get me wrong- I'm a bigger Hughes fan than GSP. I am also a fan of Silva. Silva does what it takes to win - it just happens to be a lot easier for Silva to finish fights than probably ANY other fighter in history. No biggee. It is just what the deal is with him. He is supremely talented.
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Last edited by Sean Dunston : 09-21-2011 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:47 AM   #12
Andrew Burry
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Re: The UFC WW Dillema

Whatever happened to Georges "RUSH" St. Pierre?? He used to be the most explosive fighter in the UFC. He knocked guys out, submitted guys, just beat the **** out of people. Since losing to Matt Serra GSP hasn't taken a risk and hence has won every fight by way of decision. I agree whole heartedly with Celio in that Shields got KO'd in his next fight, Dan Hardy lost 3 consecutive fights after GSP, one by KO and one by submission. You also have Thiago Alves who lost his next 2 of 3 fights. These losses definitely diminish his title defenses and what is with GSP that he can't finish these guys yet they are getting dominated by "lesser" fighters?? GSP fights with 0% risk taking, if he even stepped it up to 10% he could start finishing fights again.

I want RUSH back.
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:07 PM   #13
Doug Blankenship
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Re: The UFC WW Dillema

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So the WW division has an athlete-champion who is crusing, whether fans want to admit or not.
GSP is crusing and I thougt in a recen interview he admitted it.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:37 PM   #14
Jason Ashman
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Re: The UFC WW Dillema

He held back on Shields because he was facing a wrestler and had sustained a scratch on his eye- he was half-blind for most of that fight.

The Koschek fight was a lesson being taught. A superior fighter punishing an insolent fool for his actions of TUF. The lesson was well-delivered. Koschek spent three months on medical suspension, and came back a different man. If you watched the way Koschek behaved tonight after the Hughes fight, it was night and day. The GSP fight will be known as the point when Koschek got humbled so bad he dropped the ego and gained some maturity.

Is GSP cruising? Obviously- he has been for some time.

But, look who he's fighting.

Dana White has a HUGE problem- 3 basically unbeatable champions in three of the UFC's most popular divisions. With the Welterweights, its an even bigger problem: There is, currently, a serious dearth of talent in the WW division. There's no one in the division that can stand with him, because there's no top-tier talent available- EVERY fight GSP has had in quite some time has been against an over-hyped inferior contender, with most of them being promoted from the lesser divisions. Sure, they look good on paper- nice records, WEC champions, etc- but when you get right down to it, they're just lesser talent. He's basically a major league talent fighting minor league call-ups, because right now he's the only guy playing in the majors at that weight.

Until someone comes along with- or matures enough to develop- the talent and ability to play at that level, barring a freak happening, GSP will stay champion. A bored, cruising champion who toys with his out-classed opponents for five rounds.

I don't think its a coincidence that Shields went from a title shot to headlining a UFC Fight Night on basic cable in one step. It will be a frequent occurrence in that division for the foreseeable future.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:16 AM   #15
David Meverden
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Re: The UFC WW Dillema

Dana White doesn't want fights to end that way, right? Any chance he would step in with steeper financial incentives/threats against GSP if he doesn't actually try to finish fights?

Would Dana be right to do so? Is changing rules to deal with a specific case unfair or unwarranted? Thoughts?
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:21 PM   #16
Matthew Swartz
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Re: The UFC WW Dillema

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Originally Posted by Celio Silva View Post
Sean, I see your point, but combat sports don't work that way. This is not basketball or football. When you are rolling (BJJ) you demonstrate real dominance by submiting your opponent, not just by outpointing him; simply outpointing him means he survived you and you couldn't finish him. The goal of BJJ is submission, and the goal of a fight is no different: TERMINATION. There is no better way to show complete dominance and to secure a win in MMA than to finish your opponent and have the fight stopped, either because the referee had to pull you off him (TKO), or because he was submitted/KOed by you.

When Silva showboats and chooses to simply dominate every round against an opponent the whole world cries foul, but when GSP does it is considered dominance. I don't get it. Is it because of their looks, personalities, nationalities, etc...?

Winning a fight AT HIS HOMETOWN against a one-eyed opponent by landing jabs for 25 minutes is NOT impressive. When Hughes finished BJ, GSP went up on the cage and said to Hughes: "I am not impressed by your performance", even though Hughes had just finished one of the very best in the sport, and after initially being dominated and almost chocked out. Well GSP, I know your canadian fans were not impressed by your performance either, they would MUCH rather have seen you finish Koscheck, but the truth is you were to afraid of losing to get the job done; you played EXTRA safely.

Silva on the other hand showed how it's done when he destroyed Okami in Rio.

Much respect to you Sean, for always having a positive attitude here!
Gotta disagree here. You can get slipped into a submission sometimes. Just like a pin in wrestling. Real dominance is a tech fall.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:39 PM   #17
Forrest Kirk
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Re: The UFC WW Dillema

I agree, as long as the wrestler didn't go into the match with the objective of achieving a tech fall. The goal of American style wrestling (folkstyle) is to achieve a pin. In my opinion, tilts and a "take em down and let em up" style of wrestling doesn't exhibit dominanace.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Swartz View Post
Gotta disagree here. You can get slipped into a submission sometimes. Just like a pin in wrestling. Real dominance is a tech fall.
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:59 AM   #18
John Bickel
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Re: The UFC WW Dillema

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Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
Dana White doesn't want fights to end that way, right? Any chance he would step in with steeper financial incentives/threats against GSP if he doesn't actually try to finish fights?

Would Dana be right to do so? Is changing rules to deal with a specific case unfair or unwarranted? Thoughts?
His fights have become boring. However, Dana should be putting pressure on the challengers to have better game plan . We can give Jon Fitch a pass since he was the first one to experience the new GSP approach to fighting.

Everyone else has plenty of tape to watch. There shouldn't be any surprises on what he is going to do in these fights.

If you are a stand-up fighter, he is going to force to the ground and control you. Then he will try a couple of conservative submissions per round - nothing that will expose him. If you are a ground guy, he will force you to stand. He will be throwing a bunch of jabs & some kicks. Again he will try to minimalize his risk of getting caught by a Matt Serra type punch.

If the challenger can not neutralize GSP's game plan...
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