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Old 11-22-2010, 09:20 PM   #31
Chris Mason
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Jacob Israel Briskin View Post
Read the thread title, saw who the OP was, immediately thought "oh look, it's this thread again".

I may never understand how a man who deadlifts in the high 700s can continue to misunderstand (seemingly deliberately) what Mark Rippetoe (and by extension everyone who uses his terminology) means when he says things like "novice", "intermediate" and "advanced".
Yeah, kind of funny Rip can't (and never did) lift that much, eh?

I understand, don't worry. Now tell me one current or recent champion that Rip has produced with his great techniques. Now we can discuss what Louie has accomplished. Hmmmmm, I think Louie and his system win...

In addition, what is the title of this thread? There are a LOT of people on this board that say that Westside is NOT for beginners. They are dead wrong. That is my point with this thread.

Now, if you want to be a Rip guy etc. that is great, but you are cheating yourself in doing so. That's just a plain and simple fact.

Last edited by Chris Mason : 11-22-2010 at 09:24 PM.
 
Old 11-22-2010, 09:22 PM   #32
Chris Mason
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Andrew Roden View Post
At this point, with this comment from the OP, I stopped reading this thread. Back to SS with my 2 16 year old experiments...

Bully for you...
 
Old 11-22-2010, 09:39 PM   #33
Thomas Green
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Yeah, kind of funny Rip can't (and never did) lift that much, eh?

I understand, don't worry. Now tell me one current or recent champion that Rip has produced with his great techniques. Now we can discuss what Louie has accomplished. Hmmmmm, I think Louie and his system win...

In addition, what is the title of this thread? There are a LOT of people on this board that say that Westside is NOT for beginners. They are dead wrong. That is my point with this thread.

Now, if you want to be a Rip guy etc. that is great, but you are cheating yourself in doing so. That's just a plain and simple fact.

CrossFitters love Rip because he is a rebel. He dismisses 99% of all modern fitness concepts as bull****. And relies on anecdotal evidence primarily. Not gonna be easy convincing them to switch. But people who are well read in the world of lifting and strength training will realize that Louie is just as much of a rebel in his own right in the bodybuilding world. I think if they begin to realize this, they'll respect his methods a lot more.

But I will say this. And I say this with all the respect for Rip. There's a reason why pretty much ALL NFL teams, respectable d1 football programs, and high school programs hire Louie as a consultant. Not to mention ALL the best powerlifters in the world are coached by him and many olympic lifters, olympic track runners, etc, use him as a strength coach and not Mark Rippetoe. Because he's the best, plain and simple.
 
Old 11-22-2010, 09:41 PM   #34
Daniel Lyell
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

To all those doubters....over the last 10 months I have tried SS with full GOMAD + no wods, 5/3/1 + assistance work and WODS, and Westside plus some conditioning (Army pt....so alot more than just dragging sleds) - and guess which one left me with the best gains and recovery?

Not only did Westside provide the best gains, but I didn't feel beat down constantly like I did later on with SS and actually enjoyed going to the gym instead of dreading it. Using Westside allowed me to continue to make gains at a novice pace - well into an intermediate stage. Furthermore, I'm no longer afraid of max weights as I approach them twice a week - they are nothing new. Psychologically that has been a huge boost. I will put a post together with all my numbers in just a bit once I compile them, but in the mean time I really encourage people listen to what Mr. Mason is saying.

I don't mean to bash Rip at all - I love how he teaches the lifts and he has some darn good quotes. But there is a reason that the elite from all sorts of sports are going to Louie to train.....and the same can't really be said of Mark. Once again, I have nothing against him at all, but I believe Louie has put together a much better program.

Last edited by Daniel Lyell : 11-22-2010 at 09:45 PM.
 
Old 11-23-2010, 12:09 AM   #35
Ewen Roth
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

Elite athletes rely on Westside/Louie Simmons. Therefore, Rippetoe's program is inferior for novice lifters.

In other news, cats like to eat fish. Therefore, my plumber isn't a great tennis player.



It all makes sense to me.
 
Old 11-23-2010, 04:02 AM   #36
Wayne Riddle
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Ewen Roth View Post
It all makes sense to me.
Exactly. Rip has said he teaches novice/beginning lifters. Now for a beginning lifter I think they could make great gains on either program, they are beginners after all. Once they get past the beginner stage what they want to do will depend on what their exact fitness goals are for them.
 
Old 11-23-2010, 08:01 AM   #37
Jacob Israel Briskin
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Yeah, kind of funny Rip can't (and never did) lift that much, eh?

I understand, don't worry. Now tell me one current or recent champion that Rip has produced with his great techniques. Now we can discuss what Louie has accomplished. Hmmmmm, I think Louie and his system win...

In addition, what is the title of this thread? There are a LOT of people on this board that say that Westside is NOT for beginners. They are dead wrong. That is my point with this thread.

Now, if you want to be a Rip guy etc. that is great, but you are cheating yourself in doing so. That's just a plain and simple fact.
Go read my post again, then find the part where I said that a) Rip was stronger than Louie or b) Rip is better than Louie at producing elite powerlifters.

I'll save you some time: you won't find them. The reason for that is that neither Rip's strength nor Louie's stable of powerlifters is relevant to the meaning of the word "novice" in the sentence "linear progression is the most efficient way to increase the strength of a novice", which is what you are trying your very best to not understand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewen Roth View Post
Elite athletes rely on Westside/Louie Simmons. Therefore, Rippetoe's program is inferior for novice lifters.

In other news, cats like to eat fish. Therefore, my plumber isn't a great tennis player.



It all makes sense to me.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:19 AM   #38
Thomas Green
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

I don't recall Chris referring to Rip's definition of a novice. Just pointing out that this one kid had success w/ the program.

Last edited by Thomas Green : 11-23-2010 at 08:22 AM.
 
Old 11-23-2010, 08:31 AM   #39
Jacob Israel Briskin
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Thomas Green View Post
I don't recall Chris referring to Rip's definition of a novice. Just pointing out that this one kid had success w/ the program.
You're right, this is actually a conversation that he's had with several people on this board before. Basically, people say "Westside is an advanced program", to which he replies "no, beginners can get strong using Westside, therefore Westside is the ideal program for everyone", to which people reply "that wasn't our point to begin with."
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:35 AM   #40
Ben Moore
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Re: For those that argue Westside is only for the advanced...

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Originally Posted by Wayne Riddle View Post
Exactly. Rip has said he teaches novice/beginning lifters. Now for a beginning lifter I think they could make great gains on either program, they are beginners after all. Once they get past the beginner stage what they want to do will depend on what their exact fitness goals are for them.
This. A beginner or a young person is going to get strong on whatever they try and stick to. Let's commend them for making it into a gym on a consistent basis and then worry what regime they're going to follow after they've shown a committment to being there.
 
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